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When City Government Knows Better

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posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: TacSite18



I don't think anyone really is complaining about the cost of needed government projects.
Don't cut corners on rebuilding a bridge.

It's the projects that are not needed like a trolley project that nobody will use or a multi million dollar football stadium. As the op said, vanity projects.




posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: uwontbelievethis

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

I didn't even mention the big, shiny downtown arena. We were sold that based on the premise that if we built it, we would get a pro sports franchise.

HA!

Nope.

We do get lots of big name concerts and college tournaments and stuff through there, but no pro sports franchise.


How many times has your NFL team left? The people need to support a team if you want it to stay. Just building a fancy stadium isn't enough, they need to fill the stadium with fans.

Just saying.


The Kansas City Chiefs have never left, neither have the Kansas City Royals. People in KC love their sports teams. And we spent the money needed to refurbish both of those stadiums when the time came.

They sold people on the premise that we would get either an NBA or an NHL franchise, neither of which the city has ever had.

I knew it wasn't happening because with the NBA people are far more invested in college basketball. I didn't know if they'd get enough interest in hockey, but there are some successful local small league teams, so that might have flown.

Regardless, I didn't vote for the arena. Now we have Kemper sitting in the Bottoms and empty with Sprint sitting downtown and still having no marquis tenant and the taxpayers are on the hook for it.
edit on 30-7-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

Love to. Husband works in a smaller city to the north, but I've never been able to find work north of the river.

The other problem is that the school districts up where he works aren't very good, and where we have a child who shows all the signs of being 2E ... not good in school districts is problematic.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: TacSite18

They wouldn't even tell the public who the bids were from, and the process was rushed because people got upset over the idea of no-bid.

The local press did the legwork to find out which companies the other bids came from, otherwise we wouldn't know.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: TacSite18



I don't think anyone really is complaining about the cost of needed government projects.
Don't cut corners on rebuilding a bridge.

It's the projects that are not needed like a trolley project that nobody will use or a multi million dollar football stadium. As the op said, vanity projects.


I was not focusing on cost. I was focusing on the acquisition process, and how bidding invites corruption. Bidding is just too easy to rig, and very hard to prove, when all it takes is a quick conversation that is over and nearly impossible to prosecute, as it is all "he said, she said."


The "best value" trade off actually saves tax payer money over time, despite the added work that goes into it by paid professionals (and yes, it is a professional field, with certifications, continuing education requirements - 40 hour per year at my level - independent reviews and constant audits).

It is really common sense. When you buy something do you buy the cheapest, or the best fit, considering long term use, contract relationships, recommendations, etc.

Or would you just hire someone for a few years, to give your money to other folks to buy stuff from their friends, and give you a receipt their friend made up, and tell you it is all good, and no questions asked?



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TacSite18

They wouldn't even tell the public who the bids were from, and the process was rushed because people got upset over the idea of no-bid.

The local press did the legwork to find out which companies the other bids came from, otherwise we wouldn't know.


Sunshine laws in the state? Common Cause chapers? This should be something that you can force the government to disclose. It is not like it is national security.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: TacSite18

You can't force the government to disclose what people don't know they should be forcing them to disclose.

That's the point. They seem to be trying to do this all under the table so it's feit accompli by the time anyone knows what's up.

Additionally, the press has pulled out the little tidbit that the original local company has been lining up local contractors with an eye at dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's of diversity (woman and minority owned small contractors), but the hitch is that if those businesses sign on, there is a clause that says that if another company is awarded the bid, they cannot work for that company then.

Again, this is why I'm at the point where the safest route is to simply vote no on an airport measure, assuming I'm even allowed to vote on it because they know most people will vote no at this point. They may find a way to arrange a special vote district to give them the results they want like they did with the street car.
edit on 30-7-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TacSite18

You can't force the government to disclose what people don't know they should be forcing them to disclose.

That's the point. They seem to be trying to do this all under the table so it's feit accompli by the time anyone knows what's up.

Additionally, the press has pulled out the little tidbit that the original local company has been lining up local contractors with an eye at dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's of diversity (woman and minority owned small contractors), but the hitch is that if those businesses sign on, there is a clause that says that if another company is awarded the bid, they cannot work for that company then.

Again, this is why I'm at the point where the safest route is to simply vote no on an airport measure, assuming I'm even allowed to vote on it because they know most people will vote no at this point. They may find a way to arrange a special vote district to give them the results they want like they did with the street car.


You can contract with a sub to do work and limit their ability to work with another firm if the prime does not get the contract...however, if the prime does not get the award, the subs are entitled to the profit that they would have made (as determined by arbitration, courts or other agreement per the contract the subs signed with the original prime) if they had contacted with the winning vendor.

Any contract has to have certain elements:

There must be an offer

There must be acceptance

Both parties must agree what the contract means (mutuality - usually in writing)

It must be between two competent parties (no crazy, underaged, drunken, drugged parties)

It must have compensation for goods, services, deliverables or actions

It must be lawful (you can't contract for crimes)

If subs are signing a contract like you describe, and they perform a service or action (not working for another company), then they must receive compensation. Reasonable consideration is the profit they would have made working for the other company, and this amount cannot be fixed until the other company is awarded the contract.

The process I described is established law, and I have been called to testify in these cases on several occasions.

The main reason vendors engage in this type of behavior is to intimidate the competition and try to "poison-pill" the fulfillment of their competitors contracts. The courts take a dim view of this behavior, and the primes usually settle out of court, with the subs going to work anyway with the competetor.



edit on 30-7-2017 by TacSite18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: stormcell

I had no idea it had gotten that bad in Scotland. You have described the US city experience to a "T". And funny you mention the trams because they have done that in the US cities as well. They install light rail transit between "nowhere" and the CBD, but only the homeless, the gangs and the urban poor ride them. Useless money losing operations. And everywhere they can, they eliminate parking. Its to the point now in some of our cities, if you want to go, say to the theatre downtown, you have to park at the airport, take a hotel shuttle to the downtown area and you have to get a room at that hotel because the streets arent safe after hours.

Meh, we just watch it on the tele.

I've been planning a trip to England, sort of a relaxing pub crawl with some historic country sights. We plan it by flying Houston to Mexico city, Mexico to Dublin, then shuttle flight to some smaller English town, all so we can avoid hassles in the US in New York or Newark, and at Heaathrow.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

What is 2E?



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Just answered my own question! 2E; en.m.wikipedia.org...

My Lord, please tell me you are not going to put that kid in KC public school! Thats awful!



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: uwontbelievethis

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

I didn't even mention the big, shiny downtown arena. We were sold that based on the premise that if we built it, we would get a pro sports franchise.

HA!

Nope.

We do get lots of big name concerts and college tournaments and stuff through there, but no pro sports franchise.


How many times has your NFL team left? The people need to support a team if you want it to stay. Just building a fancy stadium isn't enough, they need to fill the stadium with fans.

Just saying.


The Kansas City Chiefs have never left, neither have the Kansas City Royals. People in KC love their sports teams. And we spent the money needed to refurbish both of those stadiums when the time came.

They sold people on the premise that we would get either an NBA or an NHL franchise, neither of which the city has ever had.

I knew it wasn't happening because with the NBA people are far more invested in college basketball. I didn't know if they'd get enough interest in hockey, but there are some successful local small league teams, so that might have flown.

Regardless, I didn't vote for the arena. Now we have Kemper sitting in the Bottoms and empty with Sprint sitting downtown and still having no marquis tenant and the taxpayers are on the hook for it.


I know.....I already said I was mistaken, I said I was thinking of St. Louis.

Jeesh.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: uwontbelievethis

I typed that before I read that you were thinking of the other big Missouri boondoggle although it gets worse on the Illinois side for St. Louis.

It's funny how everyone rags on Kansas, but Kansas City, Kansas, and the various suburbs of the same on the Kansas side are far healthier than the Missouri side mainly because of the shenanigans I am describing.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: ketsuko

Just answered my own question! 2E; en.m.wikipedia.org...

My Lord, please tell me you are not going to put that kid in KC public school! Thats awful!


Believe it or not, we had him in private school up until this year. We are not in KC public schools, we'd homeschool or move first or find another private (I taught in that district for a few years and no kid should be subjected to that!). We are in North KC public schools. They are a top district in the state (top 20 rating), so they are not a bad one with a top 10 high school. The local elementary he is going to this year is a highly rated one too.

We would have kept him in the private school except all his learning issues exploded last year and we also ran into an inflexible teacher. He has either dyslexia or dysgraphia and quite possibly auditory processing disorder too. His teacher focused solely on the behavior problems caused when a kid gets frustrated and acts out because things are too hard.

At the same time, his math and science aptitudes are off the charts. So while he was frustrated by the handwriting which was heavily emphasized and the spelling because they were harder than they should be and he was smart enough to figure that out, he was bored by the math and the science which he picked up very, very quickly and then got drilled on endlessly. So he acted out ... a lot. And by the end of the year, he was constantly wishing he'd never been born. That's not right for a kindergartner!

Then his teacher declared that they'd hold him back based on his handwriting and behavior. That was the last straw for us. Those were beyond his control.

So, yeah, he's public this year.
edit on 30-7-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2017 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Thats very sad.

When public doesnt work, Id strongly recommend home schooling. You might find a 2E Home school network. We have those here in Texas.

Id love to hear how it all works out for you and your family.



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