Our Father, Your Father, My Father and "father" Paul

a reply to: Noinden

Every quote Jesus made that is not identical to the OT is the proof.

If I wring your nose will it not produce blood?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Probably our blood

Again the Bible is not a factual source. It is a specific set of gnoses. To say otherwise is laughable.

Jesus, the son was with the father before Abraham ever was.

The birth and great work of Jesus Christ was predetermined from the very origin of the creation.

He is the first and the last, the alpha and omega.

Islam's attempt to demote Jesus from his place at the right hand of the power of God isn't workable.

Jesus is also the very love of God towards mankind made known and revealed and communicated.

To try to reduce him misses the whole point of the Gospel message.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Fully agree with all you stated.

"Call no man on earth your father, for you have one Father in Heaven."

Says the Messiah (p).

How many people actually called Paul "father" is a mystery, but according to the Acts of Barnabas, John Mark did until Paul disowned him after Mark even begged for forgiveness from "father Paul."

I sense a polemic is what that was, from an anti-Pauline Christian who was writing the Acts of Barnabas. We know that they had a falling out, this makes it clear why if you read it, he allegedly forgot some papers, Mark did, according to A.o. Barnabas.

Either way a man who has the ability to receive revelations from a Prophet, and also who is the Messiah (but not God according to said Messiah as "God is ONE")...

Should be expected to conform to the most basic teachings of this Prophet.

But obviously the whole thing was made up if they don't.

"The teaching of Balaam", eating meat sacrificed to idols was condemned in the book of Acts by the Holy Spirit and James.

Paul agreed this was something he would not do, eat idol meat or teach others it was OK. 4 agreements were made at that council.

But Paul ignores his agreement and declared an idol "nothing", made people who follow this practice (the belief was you could become possessed) "weak brothers" on his letters.

For which all who were teaching this were condemned by Jesus (p).

Who didn't teach Paul anything and if anyone can't figure out why I feel bad for them because it's simple.

God the Father is OUR Father.

Paul is the "father" of Christianity.

Also he thinks Satan is "God of this world."

Figurative or literally, no believer IN God would ever call Satan "God of..." ANYTHING!!!

Angels aren't God(s), and God OWNS Satan.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

While it is a fact that Yeshua the Messiah (pbuh) did in fact call God "My Father" and himself "the son" it is the furthest thing​from the truth to say this makes him God's literal only son, it only makes sense if you think God is not also "Our Father", too.

You seem not to grasp the Christian perspective of who Jesus was. You should understand that the Christian perspective takes into account more than simply your understanding. Jesus preexisted in the celestial realm with the Father before this universe was created. He was not a terrestrial entity at that time. There is no procreation in the celestial realm.

God either created or brought forth from Himself. There was no procreation involved. God brought forth from Himself and showed His celestial creation His image. That Image was the "Word" which we understand as the Begotten Son. So you should understand when the Son was brought forth from The Most High in the celestial realm it was not due to any sexual act. The Son was begotten from the Father but not created from the celestial substance such as the heavenly host was created. This is where the Son became the begotten of the Father. You should understand that at this time of this event the only created sons of God were the heavenly host.

This entire perspective hinges upon the immaculate conception or what most call the virgin birth. When Mary was found with child, it was the transfer of the celestial "Word" into the terrestrial realm and into the body of a terrestrial woman. This is called the conception of the Father into the woman with out the sexual act of procreation. This entity was named Jesus but his spirit of life was the very same as when He was with the Father of the celestial realm.

We then had the Begotten Son transformed into the entity named Jesus. He had the same spirit but not the same substance. He was still the Begotten Son of God in spirit and also the son of man in flesh. Now when the scriptures write of the sons of God it has two distinct meanings. All of the people from Adam to today are procreated by other people. Not one has ever been begotten by God but all have been procreated by men and women. Out of procreation, those who are justified by God are called sons of God but not one has or ever will be the Begotten Son of God. God does not procreate. Adam was formed from the created earth but Adam also was not Begotten. Adam was a son of God but not the Begotten son of God. No man is begotten of God. The only man that ever existed that was Begotten of God was Jesus.

When you read of sons of God, there are many sons of God and there has always been many sons of God. There are both celestial and terrestrial sons of God but there is only one Begotten Son of God whose name was Jesus. If you can understand this then you have the key to Christianity. If you still do not accept this then so be it. But that blood of disbelief is on your own head.

a reply to: Seede


Is Paul your "Father" as he said he "Became in Christ?"

"I became your father."

I ask because Isa (p) the Messiah said:

"Call no man on earth your father, for you have ONE father in Heaven."

Apparently Paul never got that memo at the last Apostolic conference on "Teaching what Jesus taught according to people who actually knew him."

And again with eating meat sacrificed to idols, which is kosher according to Paul and condemned by Yeshua (p) the Messiah in Revelation and all who teach it he has "something against."

Quite a few 'missed memos', eh?

Poor "father" Paul.

a reply to: Seede


I should say poor Paulinist Christianity, that is, faith without works, vicarious atonement theologians, who think Paul is on par with Moses and actually more important than Yeshua who didn't teach the doctrines innovated by Paul to the effect of a never solved schism between "Jewish Christian", i e. Nazarenes like James, Simon Peter, and nobody false prophets like Paul who the Greeks and Romans favored, because they hated Jews and so did Paul. Even if he was one, that makes it even better for the goy as if Paul was Greek it'd mean nothing, but to them they thought they had a defector.

They had a Trojan Horse. Sent by the same people they hated.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Jesus, the son was with the father before Abraham ever was.

The birth and great work of Jesus Christ was predetermined from the very origin of the creation.

He is the first and the last, the alpha and omega.

Islam's attempt to demote Jesus from his place at the right hand of the power of God isn't workable.

Jesus is also the very love of God towards mankind made known and revealed and communicated.

To try to reduce him misses the whole point of the Gospel message.

Cute rhetoric. But you have nothing to support the idea that Jesus pbuh is equal to God.

You can say he sits to the right hand of God, OK.

That proves he ISN'T God, or he'd be to his own left hand. Where God sits.

I love Christian "logic."

Islam didn't "demote" Jesus, pbuh.

You show me in the Gospel where Jesus says, "I am God, worship me."

He actually said "The Lord OUR God..."

So Jesus pbuh HAS a God, can't BE God.

And Christianity deified him.

Mohammed saws just told the truth.

Islam believes in the Second Coming and it's not the second coming of Mohammed saws either.

Show me what Islam is guilty of that demotes Jesus pbuh to a lower station than Jesus pbuh himself claimed?

Because you take "Son of God" too literally.

It's "Our Father" too, King David was "Begotten this day."

So a figurative son is all you can claim and since Islam doesn't deny the virgin birth...

You are caught talking out of your ars and you know how to tell? Look at who agrees with you!

Or just go by the Bible and the Qur'an, have you read the Qur'an?

Obviously not, you have not even read the Bible and don't realize that there is no difference between what Jesus pbuh claims he is and what the Qur'an says he is.

He also called the Holy Spirit his Mother, but Christians don't know because they don't read Church Fathers.

It's a fact, read Jerome.