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Our Father, Your Father, My Father and "father" Paul

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posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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While it is a fact that Yeshua the Messiah (pbuh) did in fact call God "My Father" and himself "the son" it is the furthest thing​from the truth to say this makes him God's literal only son, it only makes sense if you think God is not also "Our Father", too.

In which case you'd need to discard Mt. 5:16, 45; 6:1, 9; 7:11; 11:25 & 23:9

''Our Father in Heaven" is an example and the most recited prayer and while we all weren't born of virgins, it is still "Our Father" according to Yeshua the Messiah (p), and "Your Father" according to Yeshua the Messiah.

"..., so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in Heaven
." Mt. 5:16

Mt 5:45

"..., Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45. so that you may be children of your Father in Heaven;..."

Love your enemies so you can be children of your Father in Heaven. What a wonderful teaching.

Children of God.

Mt. 12:50 "Whoever does the Will of my Father in Heaven is my brother and sister."

Good to know. Muslims, who practice Islam (submission, to God's Will) are brothers and sisters with Jesus. We believe he is the Messiah (pbuh), didn't innovate a "Trinity" so he could be "God the son" because we realize that Yeshua the Messiah (p) never claimed to be God or said there is a Trinity at all. Not one time. Mistranslation, and misinterpretation of what was said and flat out ignoring the "Greatest Commandment" I'd say Christianity has taken this "son of God" thing a bit far.

After all we ARE ALL children of God, God is ''Our Father" too. Even according to Yeshua the Messiah (pbuh).

Mt. 23:9

"Call NO MAN on earth your father, , for you have one Father---the one in Heaven."

Not only is God "Our Father" but our "one (only) Father, and in Heaven."

Which makes this an odd statement if Paul actually was receiving revelations from Yeshua without anyone else witnessing. You would expect that everything in the Gospels was communicated to Paul, but it wasn't:

1 Corinthians 4:15

"Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the Gospel."

Is that the same Gospel that said "Call NO MAN ON EARTH your father"?

Yeshua pbuh must have "forgot" to tell Paul.

Paul apparently didn't know what Yeshua the Messiah (pbuh) actually taught about calling men, especially not your actual father, "father."

Oh well that's just Paul.

BTW in old MSS. of Luke and in the surviving "Gospel of the Ebionites" quotes that survive, in both at Baptism Psalms is quoted re: God to David "You are my son this day I have begotten you."

In Gospel of the Ebionites "My Mother the Holy Spirit" takes Yeshua the Messiah pbuh to Mt. Tabor.

I guess my overall point is this.

Christians took this son of God thing too far and think God literally has A son, but doesn't take literally that we humans, even though Yeshus (p) said we are, are ALSO His children, like Adam and David and the angels are called or with Adam just obviously is as first Man/Adam, every human is a "son of man" including Ezekiel in his book.

All to keep alive the "Jesus is God" lie, yes I said lie because it IS A LIE.

The Greatest Commandment proves it.

Yeshua the Messiah (p) says, "OUR God is ONE God."

Thus he can't be God.

And if Christians are wrong who is right? What's the only other religion that believes Yeshua is the Messiah (p)?

Islam. The religion that teaches every religion considered "People of the Book", which began with Jews, Christians, Sabaeans and Magians, have equal opportunity at Judgement Day enter Paradise (only 1 mate not 72 virgins, sorry, that's a Hashashin myth).

We believe if you do the Will of God and He says you are righteous you can go to Heaven. We don't return the hate of our enemies, no matter how many people think or say we hate Jews, Christians we don't, our beliefs are different but we don't think they have to obey our religion or join it to go to Heaven.

If you ask me, based on our theology vs the theology of the religion that uses the Gospels, Christianity, ours is closer to the New Testament.

We don't believe in the non Biblical Trinity, deify the Messiah, DO do the will of God, obviously not all 1.5 billion Muslims can I speak for but I know what they believe and if they follow their beliefs they do.

Meanwhile Christians believe that Jesus pbuh is GOD!!!

But the Father is God and Yeshua "Of my own power I can do nothing" (pbuh) isn't.




edit on 5-7-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 02:49 PM
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Take a vacation. You are thinking too much about religion. It'll drive you crazy. Do these ideas really matter. North Korea has a long range ICBM, that matters-though not much we can or will do abut it.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Justso


At least I don't go online specifically to tell people my opinion on what they should do in their free time.

I would then tell myself, if I was that type of person that is, to get a life and go do it.

Thankfully I do this in my free time for fun and for a reason, always bring up good points and...

Being a person of Faith I think about religion all day every day, I like it and that it has led to you telling me what you did is just you being a person who needs learn a few things.

Go do that and you won't have to limit your comments to meaningless opinions about what other people should or shouldn't be doing.

When I went your advice I will ask until then you are wasting your time, not interested in the opinions of people who can't add anything other than "Please stop talking about religion in the religous threads because you point out all the problems with Christian theology and they are valid points even if people don't agree".

That is what I hear when you say what you did.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: Justso
Take a vacation. You are thinking too much about religion. It'll drive you crazy. Do these ideas really matter. North Korea has a long range ICBM, that matters-though not much we can or will do abut it.


It might drive you crazy but not me, the person saying "don't do that, it will make you crazy" is the LAST person anyone should take advice from.

Been reading​about religion all my life and crazy all my life.

It brings me back from insanity rather than makes me crazy, I should say.



edit on 5-7-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: Justso

And I don't even know you.

Are you like, e stalking my threads?

I literally have no idea who you are, what's that tell you about you?

It should tell you that you pay attention more to people than they do you, but you don't reap the rewards most people would from doing so.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Justso

Don't want to read this person's post? Just don't click it. Dum A$$!



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

You must also remember that he told how we can become son's of the father, by doing what he had commanded, by his grace and by following him.

Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be CALLED son's of God.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

You do realize that English translations of the bible transliterize multiple meanings into a single English word right?

Find out what WORD the original texts used in both circumstances. You might find that it is not the same word, both roughly meaning Father...lol

Jaden
edit on 5-7-2017 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:04 PM
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Blessed be. Pray for patience, kindness and tolerance of others-maybe you will start to feel better. Don't know you and don't stalk-sorry you are so horribly offended but it does appear you don't have much of a following. Breathe-and pray or meditate.



posted on Jul, 5 2017 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

I think the verses you quote back up your assertion pretty well.



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti


Here are more words posted that prove you are Gnosisisfaith.

You do know the preserved word of God actually does not say it as you quoted 1Cor 4:15 it actually says and there is no claim made by Paul that he is anyone's father. Begotten in this case has more to do with bringing them forth to Christ through the Gospel of the Grace of God, and always claims God is his father and ours.

1Cor 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
He didn't say he was their father through the gospel that is a revision by a man who wants you to think he knows better that God so changes the word to make it say that he is a father. Especially after saying "Call no man father".

Why? To make you think Paul is a false teacher or that God's word cannot be trusted.

Why is a Moslem so interested in teaching falsehoods about Bible verses.

Shouldn't you actually just be focused on spreading the Koran and Hadiths.

Or can't the Koran and Hadiths convert without using other religious writings made out to be errors and falsehoods? There is nothing Holy about the Koran.

The Holy Bible however can convert without proving the Koran is wrong and false.


edit on 6-7-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Just learn all the meanings of the English words and you can get the truth as well. He has already shown he does not know the Bible in any language.
edit on 6-7-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

I feel you are taking the infallibility of the Bible as well indisputable. Sorry but when you used the term "fact" a set of rules apply, and the various Abrahamic holy texts can not be seen to be containing facts. Gnoisis sure, facts (intellectual knowledge aka eídein) no.

This thus makes what you are selling as a unverifiable gnosis, probably a shared one, thus a USG.



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

sure there some intellectual facts. Actually there are three facts in just this one verse.

Prov 30:33 Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife.


The Bible does have some facts in it.


edit on 6-7-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti

Biblical Denials or Conditionally :

John 8:33 Jesus responded: “You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do”

Acts 13:10 “O full of all guile and all villainy, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”

2 Corinthians 6:14-16 “Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has a temple of God with idols? For we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people”

Biblical Supporting:

God is the creator, the origin, the "genesis" of all things, including Adam (all humanity). The Greek word for father:
[3962 /patḗr ("father") refers to a begetter, originator, progenitor – one in "intimate connection and relationship" (Gesenius). 3962 patḗr – father; one who imparts life and is committed to it; a progenitor, bringing into being to pass on the potential for likeness.

Luke 3:37-38, "...the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of ADAM, the SON OF GOD."

James 3:9 "With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse MEN, who ARE made in the LIKENESS of God."

Matthew 9:1, So He got into a boat, crossed over, and came to His own city. 2 Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “SON, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”

Ezekiel 18:4 “All souls [people] are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die” .

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one THE CHILDREN OF GOD who were scattered abroad.

John 10:16 "And OTHER sheep I HAVE which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

Matthew 6:8 “Therefore do not be like them. For YOUR Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. Before the cross, before they enter the new covenant, before any confession of any kind, Jesus himself speaks to the crowd of people (some of whom may very well be in the crowd that later shouts crucify him!) and says "God is YOUR father!"

Matthew 6:26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet YOUR heavenly FATHER feeds them. Are YOU not of more value than they?"

Ephesians 4:5-6, ..."one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in all."



Acts 17:

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
24 “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since HE GIVES TO ALL LIFE, BREATH, AND ALL THINGS.
26 And HE HAS MADE FROM ONE BLOOD EVERY NATION OF MAN TO DWELL ON ALL THE FACE OF THE EARTH, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though HE IS NOT FAR FROM EACH ONE OF US; 28 for IN HIM WE LIVE AND MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING.’
29 Therefore, SINCE WE ARE THE OFFSPRING OF GOD, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising.



posted on Jul, 6 2017 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well yes, it also attributes contradictory statements to Christianities messiah. No other documents record Jesus, hence one can not coo-berate what is said, and the contradictory nature of these statements imply they are not first person account. Thus they can not be truth, or facts. Like I said it is pure gnosis. That is fine in religious settings, that is a gut thing, not a quantitative thing.



posted on Jul, 7 2017 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: Disturbinatti


Text Trinity" so he could be "God the son" because we realize that Yeshua the Messiah (p) never claimed to be God or said there is a Trinity at all. Not one time.

John_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

As you can plainly see there are three entities stated in the above verse of the author of John. They are the Father, the Spirit of truth, and Jesus. That is three and not one. This is the accepted gospel of the apostle John in the accepted quotes of red letters in most all Christian bibles.

Jonh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

You probably will not find this in the Quran so you will have to read it in the KJV bible.



Yeshua the Messiah (p) says, "OUR God is ONE God."


Yes that is correct
1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
























edit on 7-7-2017 by Seede because: key word mispelled



posted on Jul, 7 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

Or God likes to use his words at certain times as he wants them to be understood in each generation.

Everyone of the things listed in that verse I quoted are quantitatively true in any generation.



posted on Jul, 9 2017 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

So you can post proof of this? specifically the recorded word of Jesus? You know the subject of the thread, not other little bits of coincidental common knowledge? Go on.



posted on Jul, 9 2017 @ 05:32 PM
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Islam spends more time robotically spewing "Jesus not god" than they do promoting Allah and Mohammad. Thats all I need, to know that there's something more to it.
edit on 9-7-2017 by BigBangWasAnEcho because: Glitches in me britches



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