Proof Beloved Disciple is Simon Peter

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The evidence of salvation is our actions
I am not a universalist, hope I didn't come across like that

I agree mostly with what you are sayin, in Corinthians a man is told to leave the church because of his sin.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I think in Corinthians it actually says if he has been confronted with his sin multiple times and continues in it he is to be put out of the assembly. No Christian can be put out of the church which is the body of Christ. But separation from fellowship should produce self reflection enough to lead to a godly sorry.

If it doesn't it may be the person was not saved to begin with. But all sin after salvation. even Paul shows that he did as well in Romans 7. So the sin that caused one to be put out of fellowship was said to be something not even done by Gentiles and if he would not stop then he was to be put out.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Sorry Chester, I am not a Calvinist
Nor a Jehovah Witness...

a reply to: Raggedyman

Neither am I, but my answer is neither a Calvinist or Jehovah Witness answer, it is a Bible answer.

Here are a few example on who and why we are to avoid a so called brother in Christ, put them out of fellowship, and to turn away from them, if even for a short while.

1Co 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That last part meant to put him out of fellowship.

Then after the man repented and the assembly still would not let him back in Paul said

2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

IN another case this was taught

1Cor 5:9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So when you get to Tim 3:5 you will understand he is not talking about unsaved in 2 Tim 3:1-5 but those who claim to be brethren otherwise Paul by inspiration would have God being contrary to the previous teaching. The context of 2 Tim 3 started in 2Tim 2 men in 2Tim 3:1 are church men

2Tim 3:1-5 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

And about if one has sinned against another personally this instruction was given if he will not hear then he is to be avoided

Mt 18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This instruction is purely Israel but could be modified in a church manner.

Now about others who do not beleive the word of God, and/or teach error which is a sin in itself

Rom 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Anyway, everyone has their reasons why to kick people out of fellowships or avaoiding them, but we should stick to the Bible and it alone. Not Watchtower Magazine, Book of Mormon, Calvinistic T.U.L.I.P., Knights of Columbus Publications, Even Bible Commentaries of men. I no longer even read Daily devotions published by others.

I am now a true Bible Alone kind of a man. Get away from the Bible and you get away from the truth. That is MHO as to why we have so many denominations, sects, and cults out there. They have gotten away from the Bible and make fantastical claims, as to what the truth is. I just look at the scriptures and that is all the truth I need.

Blessing bro.

edit on 6-7-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Raggedyman

Anyway, everyone has their reasons why to kick people out of fellowships or avoiding them, but we should stick to the Bible and it alone. Not Watchtower Magazine, Book of Mormon, Calvinistic T.U.L.I.P., Knights of Columbus Publications, Even Bible Commentaries of men. I no longer even read Daily devotions published by others.

I am now a true Bible Alone kind of a man. Get away from the Bible and you get away from the truth. That is MHO as to why we have so many denominations, sects, and cults out there. They have gotten away from the Bible and make fantastical claims, as to what the truth is. I just look at the scriptures and that is all the truth I need.

Boy have we rabbit trialed or what?

Blessing bro.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well we are on the aame page, my confusion is based on being saved merely by faith and we are
Though, once saved our Christian actions then demand a lifestyle change to accommodate that faith

Relying on "faith only" after salvation is not an option, we are tasked with showing the fruit of the Spirit, living the sermon on the mount, Christian existentialism as such
I didn't see that in your comments

a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh Man, if I had relied on Faith alone and no action or feet to my profession of faith I would be a mess today.

A lot of prayer, determination, failing and getting back up and going at this life again each and everyday from day one. It is not the easiest life to live by by faith and action I am able and all Glory goes to God. I praise him for his salvation he has given me through Jesus.

It is my birthday today and I was walking from the work shop to one of the units I am working on. A good looking lady came out of one of the buildings in nothing but a very small bikini walking over to the pool about 100 yards away. So my mind wanted to say, "I am sure glad it is my birthday"! But instead of letting my flesh get the best of me I lowered my head and said, "God don't let me lust, she is pretty and you maid her that way, but I don't have to act on my fleshly impulses." She turned one way and I kept going to the unit.

So I am a work in progress and that work wont finish until I am with the Lord.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Anyway, everyone has their reasons why to kick people out of fellowships or avoiding them, but we should stick to the Bible and it alone. Not Watchtower Magazine, Book of Mormon, Calvinistic T.U.L.I.P., Knights of Columbus Publications, Even Bible Commentaries of men. I no longer even read Daily devotions published by others.

I am now a true Bible Alone kind of a man. Get away from the Bible and you get away from the truth. That is MHO as to why we have so many denominations, sects, and cults out there. They have gotten away from the Bible and make fantastical claims, as to what the truth is. I just look at the scriptures and that is all the truth I need.

Boy have we rabbit trialed or what?

Blessing bro.

And there I think you may be wrong but each to his own.
Before the bible was published, the church grew without it.
The church is a community, we are called to go into the church community. Iron sharpens iron, the apostles taught not from a bible, Jesus taught not from a bible
The message is love, not the bible

Making the bible "the only way" makes it the centre of our faith, making the bible kinda like the Protestant version of the pope

Jesus is our foundation, the bible is the best access we have to Jesus (Holy Spirit aside) but God called us into community for a reason, God made humanity relational, Hismchurch relational. Read everything with discernment, another gift from God

I have heard a sermon preached on a verse in the bible and walked away confused and jaded, heard it taught by another person who cleared up all my misconceptions.
The bible is not an easy book to read, it's 2000 year old Jewish culture, it does not stand alone 2000 years after it was written. That's just the NT

Still that's just me

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well I believe that each generation had the word of God preserved for them. In many cases it was written and orally read to others who did not have a copy of their own.

Jesus did teach the word of God, he taught from oral tradition this was common with the Jews. He quoted many Old Testament Passages from memory (well he is God and it is his words), sometimes they are not exactly as recorded in the written copies. The Apostles taught orally also and were able to quote scriptures even though they had no copy of the Scriptures in their day. As their time was closing and God made a change in plans on returning to establish the earthly Kingdom, often referred to as the Kingdom of Heaven, and as God began to send others to teach the word recording it was necessary. And seeing God says his words were purified 7 times and he would preserve them to every generation forever in Psalm 12:6, 7 I am glad I have a copy of them to hold in my hand.

I am sure you are glad to have a copy too. I also attend a local fellowship/church organization because Iron does sharpen Iron as you said. I don't know everything in the Bible and I do like to learn more and fellowship with others.

Yes, I have heard sermons that were like that as well. And I have like you had others teach the same verses and it was much clearer.

I often am reading the context of the verses being preached and can tell when the preacher/teacher/sometimes the pastor have gotten out of context and have had to change the words by going to Greek or Hebrew so they can establish an application that was not in the context.

I just hate always hearing preaching on giving, tithing, Sowing money to the church organization to reap more money from what I sowed. I like to get lifestyle teachings, so I can walk and live a better Christian life.

I also think that many are not being called to teach or pastor but seem to take or make the whole thing nothing more than employment.

I like to teach the word, I was a missionary pastor for 15 years. I had to give it up and come back to the States to find out why my son was not talking at age five. It is now four years and we still don't have a diagnosis. But he is speaking more (not so clearly though) and seems to be about the age of a three year old. There are times though he seems to be a normal 9 year old in his actions just not in his speech or expressing himself.

The Bible we have today, the AV being the only one with all verses and words in it, whether they be controversy or not they are all there. So we are taught to study them, I have them in English so I now study the English words and don't go back to Greek and Hebrew as I did in my early days as a Christian. Though occasionally I still look at the other languages when the English seems a little lacking in meaning.

But still that is just me.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I like that "making the bible the protestant version of the Pope".

There are some churches today that have not come from the reformation, that is out of the Roman Catholic church organization, known as protestants. For example Baptists are not protestant, because they did not come out of the RC. Here are a few that came out of the reformation the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Wesleyans, etc. Then we have a whole bunch of other Christian groups now that were not protestant too.

I do make the God's words my authority for how I live and that Because Jesus said man should not live by bread alone but by every word of God. I don't think their is anything wrong in that. If the Pope told me to go steal I wouldn't do it for God's word says not to. So the Bible is actually of higher authority than any man, Pope or otherwise.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well I have met Protestants and baptists who have turned the bible into an idol
Who say it's pure and perfect and have no idea what they are learning

The bible is a great book, but we have each other as well as the Holy Spirit

Be discerning

a reply to: Raggedyman

Just because I or others say that a version, as I do the AV, is pure and perfect does not mean I have made it an Idol. If that is true then God is guilty of Idolatry because he claims by inspiration his word as pure

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalm 119:140 ¶ Thy word [is] very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

I have learned much from the Bible so the blanket claim that they "have no idea what they were learning".

What we learn are the ways of God which is the way we want to live. We learn that his judgement for our wrong actions will one day be held to us for accountability. We learn his laws and how they do or don't apply to us today. We learn his words for they guide us aright and lead us to perfection in out lives. We learn his statutes and precepts because they help us to avoid or embrace practices of life. We look to commandments so we know what additionally pleases him.We learn his love for us and that his grace is abundant and available to all who would believe his pure words.

JMHO.

So I do think we do know what we are learning.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Funny it says something different in mine

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV /

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, Written for what?

Romans 15:4 ESV

For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
They give us hope, in WHAT?

John 5:39 ESV

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Look here, who they were written about, Jesus, not about the bible

Chester John, Jesus came to end religion.
We can eat pork, get tattoos, have sundays off church, just as long as we love Jesus.
Love God, love each other.
It doesnt say in scripture to love the bible, you accuse God, who are you.

Love God love each other is the whole of the law, not love the bible

It seems you love he bible more than other people, just like a pharisee


So what laws are we to keep from the OT and what ones can we dump?

a reply to: Raggedyman

No, I love Jesus who is God, more than anything else. I love my AV Bible secondly, my wife and family thirdly, the brethren (includes women) in Christ, fourthly. I show forth the Love of Christ to my unsaved neighbors, unsaved fellow employees, and all others who are unsaved as best I can.

Do I fail in this? Occasionally

Now concerning my AV Bible, It instructs me to read it, to think on it, to study it and share it. Let's look at the differences between them. One thing I noticed in many years of using an AV above any other is that from the English words I can teach what is taught in all other English versions.

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV / All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Written for what?

2Tim3:16, 17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

See any differences? First, Instruction is not the same thing as training, and secondly teaching and doctrine are not the same thing either, even though a doctrine can be a teaching. And most definitely teaching is one of the meanings of Doctrine but only one of its points of meaning.

Instruction is the theory, training is putting the theory into action.

To answer your question,"written for what" I will say, The word of God is written first of all so that through it we may learn by its instruction on how to have salvation through Jesus Christ, and Secondly so that we can have it to study, read, share with others, and learn its doctrines, reprove those who need reproving, correct those who need correcting, encourage those who need encouraging, instruct those who need instruction and train those who need training. i.e. like how to study and rightly divide the word of God. Of course I am sure there are more reasons it is written. One of those most important ones is that we learn about Christ and what it is he has done for us that we could not achieve on our own.

Romans 15:4 ESV For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

They give us hope, in WHAT?

Roms 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Clearly we can agree that just because someone is given instruction does not mean they have learned anything. Instruction gives us the theory but learning is the experience we get when applying the instruction correctly. Endurance is not always patience. I think you and I can agree we can endure something with or without patience. Comfort and encouragement are not always the same things either. Though we can get comfort from encouragement and encouragement from comfort I don't think we can absolutely substitute either for the other.

Now you used the word "give" us hope. But might have hope is much different in give us hope. It is the comfort of scriptures that might give us hope. Not everyone is comforted by scriptures and not everyone gets hope from them either.

Notice how in the ESV they used the word "through" twice, the AV makes patience and comfort into one event while using the word "through" twice makes them two separate events something Paul was not trying to do.

Hope in what you ask, Hope in the eternal life promised us through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 5:39 ESV You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Scriptures are the written words we call the Bible. Notice how the ESV adds the word "You" it makes it a past tense statement. But in the AV it is an instruction to search. He already knew they thought they thought they had eternal life because by their self righteousness. But what they didn't know was they were on many occasions speaking about the Messiah, how he would come into this world (not just the first time but the second as well), how he would be raised, how he would be ordinary looking, how he would die and for what reason he would die. The OT Scriptures were all they had at that time but we have the NT today. And they were written before our time and therefore they are for our learning today as well.

I am sure you can see I am using the scriptures to possibly instruct and encourage you. I don't think and hope you don't either, that I am in any way reproving you, I am not.

I have found through study of the English words found in my AV Bible that I can teach any meaning of any other of the 350 plus English versions out there.

My answers and comparisons here are by all means covering every point and details.

Learning to be a Christian is an everyday thing so I continue to read and study so I can learn how to apply it to my life.

And as a disclaimer I am not trying to come across arrogant or as if I know it all. My only intent is to share with you from the knowledge I have gleaned over the many years of reading and studying. As I have learned from what you have learned and gleaned from the Bible as well. We may not agree but on that I am flexible and understanding.

blessings to you.

edit on 12-7-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Yeah good and all that
Still, arguing over a few petty words in a translation of the bible

Does the bible call itself to be loved, where?
Does it call us as christians to love God and each other
or does it say
Love God, the bible and each other
You are borderline a cultist, pharisee, be warned, in love

My hope is in Jesus, not how accurate the AV or any other translation is

A bible, books of paper, Jesus flesh and blood who died for me, can you see the difference?

Sounds like you worship the bible, just saying

a reply to: Raggedyman

words mean things and are very important not a single word is petty especially when it is inspired of God.

It is not about accuracy, that is what scholars want you to think, it is about preservation. Only one of the 350 plus English bibles can be the preserved one for this English speaking generation.

I am sure you have a poem you love, or a book you love. We are not commanded to love the Bible. But so you know, look at what David said about the written law of Moses, the Testimonies, the commandments, and the precepts, which was a written copy not the original, and are in our Bible today.

Ps 119:97 ¶ MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Ps 119:113 ¶ SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.
Ps 119:119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.
Ps 119:127 ¶ Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
Ps 119:159 ¶ Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness
Ps 119:163 ¶ I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.
Ps 119:165 ¶ Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Ps 119:167 ¶ My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly.

Tell me again how someone is not allowed to love God's word? or love their Bible? Seeing by example David did and still does.

I say if King David can love the scriptures/Bible then so can I and anyone who doesn't probably doesn't love God either.

My hope is in Jesus, but the word of God teaches me how to come to that hope, how to love others better than myself, how to live righteously and soberly in this world.

NO I worship Jesus and love his words as 100% preserved in the AV

a reply to: ChesterJohn

And Christ came because people loved the law more than each other, and Christ came to set man free of the law
Love God, love each other, love the bible?
Pleas pray, meditate on what you are doing, what you believe
It's religious, it's the stuff of Pharisees

The Pharisees loved the law, Jesus had to die to end the law

My favorite bible verse. If you love me love my bible? Yeah, no?

David broke Gods laws, David loved the laws but he understood them, David worshiped God and broke the laws.
Just like Jesus, understood the law was made for man and not man for the law

Anyway, if you want to worship the AV bible, that's fine, if you want to give it special authority, that's fine, if you want to put your faith in the AV that's ok, just be careful, Jesus did not die on the cross for your bible.
Jesus died for people, asked you to love people, not the bible

I don't know, sounds a little compulsive
Jesus summed up the law in two,laws, love God, love each other.
The bible, it's good, love covers many sins.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What Old Testament laws do we keep, what ones can we ditch
Can you answer that question please.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Paul restated all commandments but the Sabbath day observance. What laws do we keep? None really, but we should keep, Thou shall not kill, thou shalt worship the lord thy God and him only, Jesus is the fullness of God bodily. thou shall not commit adultery. or steal or lust, or covet what other have. Those nine Paul restates are for the church today in a slightly different application than that for Israel. But however not one of those would send a believer to hell only that they would affect our testimony and reduce our rewards.

But there is no reason we should not love the word of God. Not above our love for Jesus Christ our God and Saviour but secondary to him and before our own family, neighbors and others.

Still God's word is something we should love and care deeply for. We should seek the preserved version for our generation today because his word says he will preserve them to every generation forever. That would include today. It would be in English. I believe it to be the AV because it is the only English version that has ALL the verses in it (disputed or not), it has a built in dictionary that defines all English words in it by the context, it has a built in cross-references of verses. phrases and words inter and inner testament, and the equivalent English meanings of words of the originals of which we have no originals but only copies.

I know you love the Lord and his word should be just as important to you for your life and godliness.

I don't worship the AV Bible I only believe that it is the preserved Bible for our generation. There is nothing wrong n loving the Bible it is far better than those who hate it or are always saying it is in error.

Blessings

originally posted by: ChesterJohn


But there is no reason we should not love the word of God. Not above our love for Jesus Christ our God and Saviour but secondary to him and before our own family, neighbors and others.

That part just creeps me out
A book, words above any human being, family enemy, where do you get that from.
I just cant find that in the bible, where???

Blessings