Proof Beloved Disciple is Simon Peter

a reply to: csimon

Many books in the Bible were written by dictation, Meaning one person spoke and another wrote it for them, Peter may have done this, John May have this, we know Paul did it.

Using the word "written" without clarification gives the idea that Peter, John or whomever didn't have any part in the books given by their names but they did.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Oh yes it does, you brought it up that you are a Moslem, and one tactic taught by your scholars is to plant doubt in the minds of the infidels then convert them to Islam. We are no fools Gnosisisfaith.

Why have you not tried to dispute with God Our Saviour Jesus Christ over his words I posted yesterday that prove you are wrong and God is true, that John is the "Beloved leaning on Jesus Bosom?"

Read Raggymans post and what he says about your destabilize the faith of others faiths.

You arrogance, pride and MO give you away and though you are masking it well ATS staff will ban you again.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: csimon

Many books in the Bible were written by dictation, Meaning one person spoke and another wrote it for them, Peter may have done this, John May have this, we know Paul did it.

Using the word "written" without clarification gives the idea that Peter, John or whomever didn't have any part in the books given by their names but they did.

Hell if I was trying to be mischievous like Chester Jon thinks there are things I could bring up that are far worse than the possibility that Peter (I will give you John could have co wrote, it explains a lot actually) wrote the Gospel of John.

It is interesting because Eusebius claims Philo who lived at the time actually met Peter and he was the first Hebrew to use Logos as the son of God in his writings.

I don't believe Eusebius but there might br a kernal of truth to it. Philo DID write that.

Factually speaking, the Gospel of John doesn't claim to be written by John.

Just saying, it's possible but not provable.

Even if John was the beloved disciple it doesn't say that.

But it does say Peter asked the question which revealed the identity of the unnamed beloved disciple.

It's a very esoteric book and that's not something Christians are trained to interpret as literalism is the way today.

Origen wouldn't agree with them but hey he was just one of the smartest Church Fathers so what does that matter!!!

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Sorry, I will use only the Preserved word of God as found in the one true Holy Bible the AV when disputing, all outside or extra-biblical books are off the table when discussing the preserved words of God.

a reply to: ChesterJohn


Don't apologize, you didn't do anything other than act immature and I honestly don't need an apology, you should be apologizing to yourself.

Use every Bible, no Bible, I don't care, but why are you telling me?

I don't care what Bible in what language you use they are all Bibles and one Bible only people tend towards fanaticism so...

a reply to: Disturbinatti

It was not an apology, it was a point that I will use only the preserved words of God found all in only one Bible the AV.

Sorry does not always mean someone is apologizing it also means they will not do something.

Like, sorry I will not convert to Islam.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You did say sorry, that's apologizing.

Salaam Chet.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: ChesterJohn


Don't apologize, you didn't do anything other than act immature and I honestly don't need an apology, you should be apologizing to yourself.

Use every Bible, no Bible, I don't care, but why are you telling me?

I don't care what Bible in what language you use they are all Bibles and one Bible only people tend towards fanaticism so...

Sorry but If you don't care about the Bible in any language and have never sought out the one God has said through his prophet David to preserve to every generation, then stop trying to argue about it and what is what and coming up with fanatical and fantastical ideas about it.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Disturbinatti

Sorry, I will use only the Preserved word of God as found in the one true Holy Bible the AV when disputing, all outside or extra-biblical books are off the table when discussing the preserved words of God.

See?

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Sorry but you have a lot to learn about English and its word uses.

You are a sorry Moslem, who is confused and misguided.

There are many men of this sorry sort.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

you need to go back to school and re learn (if you have at all) English grammar and its structure.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

I don't agree with your assumption
I don't care who wrote the gospels

Why don't I care, because I have Jesus

Peter John James, or Mary herself, I really don't know or mind
It's you with the problem, not me

The bible tells me that Jesus is lord, the bible is just s book, with a few minor errors

Please don't transpose your childish attitude to me


The best part about replying to you
I Get to explain to many christians that the bible is not an error free faultless book, that it does contain errors, that we don't have to defend the bible, that unlike Muslims, we don't treat the bible like the koran
That though the bible has errors and can be confusing, Jesus isn't
Jesus is like the Father, perfect love, faultless, reliable, our King who will return and put down all who oppress Him and His kingdom

Christians don't have a Papacy, a priest who can't be questioned, a Koran that is an idol worshiped, statues that need prayer
We have the living God, Jesus

The bible, it serves a purpose, it points to Jesus

a reply to: Raggedyman

His whole OP started out trying to prove Peter was "the beloved" but many have proven him wrong and now it ends up to who wrote the Gospel of John.

Talk about rabbit trailing, Disturbinatti is disturbed that is for sure, he doesn't know English Grammar or Structure, he doesn't know the Holy Bible and he wants everyone to think he has discovered some long unknown truth.

He didn't even deny the point we know who he is one of many ATS names that have been banned over the last year and a half but mainly known as Gnosisisfaith.

Jesus is Lord and the only way to the father and any other way leads to hell.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

and he sucks people into his confusion and we end up in petty arguments with him

I am sure that he isnt a Muslim
I wont reply directly to Disturbi, but I will teach against what he is talking about

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Peter wrote the Gospel of John,

I hate to burst your bubble but Peter was cruxified in 64 AD after a fire broke out in Rome by the order of Emperor Nero.
So how can a dead man wrote a book 30 years later? The Gospel of John was written around 90 AD - 100 AD.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Factually speaking, the Gospel of John doesn't claim to be written by John.

Acording to John is not the same meaning as written by John. It can be written by someone else based on John's testimonials.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Beloved Disciple

An anonymous author who wrote the Gospel of John. Not necessary John the Apostle but someone else under John's supervision, and gradually completed after John the Apostle died in 98 AD. Or an addition by later author(s) after John died ( if the gospel is dated much later than 90-100 AD ). Nothing conclusive yet.

Edit:

1- If Jesus died approximately 30 AD, then John must be very very old by 90 AD to 100 AD, at the time the gospel was written.

Or John must be very young when he eyewitness events surrounding Jesus, ( 60 years after Jesus died for him to write the Gospel ), which explain the anonymity of the authorship. But then again, this is based on assumption that carbon dating the gospel is accurate.

2. The other Gospels do not mention anyone in parallel circumstances who could be directly linked to the Beloved Disciple. For example, in Luke 24:12, Peter runs to the tomb. Matthew, Mark, and Luke do not mention any one of the twelve disciples having witnessed the crucifixion. Therefore I suggest this "beloved disciple" is an addition to "The Good News Based on John's Testimonials" by later author(s).

a reply to: Disturbinatti

It really isn't a big thing if John or Peter wrote the Gospel of John. It doesn't change the message one iota.

But you are the one Jesus loved. Absolutely!

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Disturbinatti

It really isn't a big thing if John or Peter wrote the Gospel of John. It doesn't change the message one iota.

But you are the one Jesus loved. Absolutely!

But you are the one Jesus loved. Absolutely!

To TRUE

a reply to: Raggedyman

God loves all mankind.

However, the application of that love which includes eternal life with God can only be applied to a person if they have faith through Jesus Christ work on the cross.

If not the Love God has for that person never ends but their is no application of love to that person, and because of God's justice they must pay for their sin themselves.

Because life is eternal the only choice we have is to where we will spend it.

In heaven with God or in hell with the Devil and his angels.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Is life eternal, Adam and Eve didnt eat from the tree of life

and no, faith is not enough, evidence of faith is called for, see James.
God loves each and everyone of His creation, Jesus died for all humanity

Its our choice

a reply to: Raggedyman

yeah but it is the life of the soul not of spirit. Once all men are connected with their bodies again and the spirit that is life is restored in them, they will be judged by the books and those not found in the Lambs book of life get the second death which is eternal damnation in a lake of fire.

The evidence of my faith is my changed life, my changed life is the works that James speaks of, not works of the law of Moses, but of the law of liberty. I can show you both my faith and the works of my faith but ALL the credit goes to Jesus who saved and ransomed my soul by his cross. May He be most blessed and praised forever and ever.

We, as Gentiles or Jews saved today, must becareful because James, the brother of John who wrote the book with his name before he was martyred, wrote to the Israel Only. We must take care not to place ourselves under a yolk that even Israel could not bear or lift one finger to do. See what Peter says in Acts 15

James 1:1 ¶ James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Remember the Jews were scattered for four hundred years before Jesus was born it is to them he rights and that before Paul was called and before Peter preached to Cornelius where they were filled with the Holy Ghost before be baptized or hands laid on them as we saw early on in the book of Acts.