NEWS: Iran and China Bought Missiles that Carry Nuclear Weapons From Ukraine.

According to Grigory Omelchenko, the Ukranian secret police has found that both Iran, and China have bought missiles which are used to carry nuclear warheads from Ukraine. Their investigation found that 12 Kh-55s had been illegally exported around 1999-2001. Six of the missiles were sold to Iran and the other six to China. These missiles have a range of 3,000 km



This information is coming from the Ukraine, and it seems to confirm the allegations that the US administration have stated about Iran.

According to the India Daily Iran is very close to producing such wmd. I provide a link to the article from India Daily below.

This information is not coming from US sources, but from outside sources. I really don't think those people who think the US would "make up" these claims would say that now....i could be mistaken thou....

I am also providing a German source, news weekly Der Spiegel, in English, about Khatami ordering the building of a facility to continue uranium enrichment.

Related News Links:
www.indiadaily.com
www.dw-world.de

Humm....i just noticed the original name of the subject should read. "Iran and China Bought Missiles That Are Used To Carry Nuclear Weapons From Ukraine.... Oh well, anyone can make a mistake.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Muaddib]

But, it's for the Iranian space program! I'm sure they just want to get into the market of boosting satellites for the West!

It's obvious the Chinese needed the boosters to aid developement for their growing space program. The soviet designs for boosters and spacecraft are robust and reliable, so there's no need for China to "reinvent the wheel". I'm glad to see a nation that still understands that it is a good thing, to do something expensive, extravagant, silly and dangerous for something ephemeral but important like National Pride.

Iran, however-has never spoke of the desire for space-launch capability, nor does it have the infrastructure (launch pads, support structures, anything resembling a spaceport) to do so. IMHO, the only reason they would purchase such boosters is to replicate them for their original purpose-delivering a deadly payload long distances.

They were for Iran's satellite program were they not? Just because missles/rockets have a multitude of possible uses does not mean it will be used as a nuclear missle.

Sorry but I see nothing in those links that suggest Iran is building nuclear weapons.

We all know Iran wants to continue Uranium enrichment, that is no secret. Guess why they want to do that, so they do not have to buy fuel from other countries to power their nuclear powerplants. Big deal.

the kh-55 is a sea/air launched cruise missle, its not used to launch anything into space, its not powerful enough or big enough so you cant use that argument, theres only one purpose for this missle, to carry a nuclear warhead and to only a distance of 2500 km...

rusweapon.far.ru...

heres a link about the illegal ukraine missile sales from another source..

www.themoscowtimes.com...

and another..

www.aljazeera.com...

www.guardian.co.uk...



[edit on 4-2-2005 by namehere]

didnt mean to post anything

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Sep]

Quite frankly, I don't trust a single word from anyone anymore without direct and concrete proof. Could be fact.....could be just more disinfo to bolster support for another war. Wouldn't be the first time.

"No but reeeely, they do have WMD's. My pal Dicky says so too! And we should know...cause we're workin hard....and sometimes on Saturday! AND we got camera's that fly in space....I mean...I seen the pictures with the little pointy lookin missles...just can't figure out how them camera's fly though. Hey Dick....how do camera's fly?"

right, a ukraine law maker calling for an investigation so they can justify a war for the US even tho the ukraine totally opposed iraq and is pulling out....thats illogical.

Originally posted by namehere
right, a ukraine law maker calling for an investigation so they can justify a war for the US even tho the ukraine totally opposed iraq and is pulling out....thats illogical.

And the following information i am quoting comes from a German source....Germany opposed the war in Iraq also....so what's your point?.... Does the US now also owns Germany, India and Ukraine?.....riiiight.....

Iran has been constructing a secret tunnel since October to continue uranium enrichment, despite a deal two weeks ago to freeze the program, German news weekly Der Spiegel reported in an issue to be published Monday.



Der Spiegel, citing a secret service file, said that Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei had personally ordered the facility built last month near the uranium enrichment site in Isfahan that is under UN observation. The tunnel, which the magazine said is out of the view of spy satellites, is intended to house a production site for large amounts of uranium UF6 gas which can be enriched in gas centrifuges -- a key step in the building of a nuclear bomb. The clandestine project is being led by a task force that answers directly to Khamenei, the report said.

Excerpted from.
www.dw-world.de...

Originally posted by Muaddib

And the following information i am quoting comes from a German source....Germany opposed the war in Iraq also....so what's your point?.... Does the US now also owns Germany, India and Ukraine?.....riiiight.....

American Corporations have their grubby little paws in everything........before I get blasted for making a statement w/out support, I shall pose a question...........Who invented the paper trail?

Muaddib

whoa, i was pointing out that antipigopolist' assertion was obsurd, i wasnt agreeing with them

as posted by MemoryShock
Who invented the paper trail?

Umm, France?
Umm, the United Nations?
Umm, Saddam?
*scratches head*
2+2=4

I got it.
Since you started your comment with an American negative (blast), it must have been the Americans? Specifically the "grubby" American Corporations? No other foreign corporations, at all? Just strictly and only the Americans and their corporations, correct?




seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by MemoryShock
Who invented the paper trail?

Since you started your comment with an American negative (blast), it must have been the Americans? Specifically the "grubby" American Corporations? No other foreign corporations, at all? Just strictly and only the Americans and their corporations, correct?

I specified America because of the previous post.......but the implication should be amended to include all corporations...... or maybe none of them.

To accurately present my sentiment would be to say that the dealings of a nation is always subject to outside influence and manipulation; the possibility exists.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
American Corporations have their grubby little paws in everything........before I get blasted for making a statement w/out support, I shall pose a question...........Who invented the paper trail?

You took the post right out of my head, MemoryShock. What Muaddib fails to understand is the process of heavy handed negotiation. Get Iran onboard with "democracy", invade, help rebuild, install a government figurehead favorable to the US, position yourself favorably with key players in the oil and gas industry with the intent to negotiate exports at a premium discount or further construction of pipelines, discuss a "new deal" to "bury the hatchet" and "move forward, forget about Iraq" with Germany/Ukraine, get Germany/Ukraine on the table for some favorable commodity deals and viola...support by the opposition for war in Iran. Support from the opposition. But then again...I'm just an engineer. I know squat?!

Originally posted by namehere
Muaddib

whoa, i was pointing out that antipigopolist' assertion was obsurd, i wasnt agreeing with them

Woah yourself, namehere! Do you know ANYTHING about the United State's history of corrupt deals to further our self-interests or did you sleep during that class? Do I really need to make a list for you? You my friend are the "obsurd" one! A little more attention in english class might help as well!

Originally posted by MemoryShock

American Corporations have their grubby little paws in everything........before I get blasted for making a statement w/out support, I shall pose a question...........Who invented the paper trail?

Ok....what in the name of everything that is sacred, not to use other words, are you even trying to imply here?.....

Now the world is in favour of a war against Iran and they are puting disinfo to start a new war?..... YEAH RIIIIGHT.........

What are you going to come up with next, the whole universe is on this disinfo campaing too?.......

I'll bite for namehere...

Personal put downs aside, antipigopolist, you mention:

Do you know ANYTHING about the United State's history of corrupt deals to further our self-interests or did you sleep during that class? Do I really need to make a list for you?

As a past History major myself, please do provide that list, so as we can see what 'legit' sources your using, k? I'm certainly game to see the list of those sources. Btw: they will be verified primary or secondary or simply "sources"?

You my friend are the "obsurd" one! A little more attention in english class might help as well!

seekerof

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Who invented the paper trail?

Ok....what in the name of everything that is sacred, not to use other words, are you even trying to imply here?.....

I was justifing my lack of proof with an accusation that disinformation has become an art...........a little off topic for uno momento.....Logic and The Delphi Technique

Personal conversations and arguements have been studied and refined. It's all about how you use words(aggresive/passive) as well as the amount of literal proof. Motivational Speakers are a good example of how people make a living using words intended to appeal to the psyche(and therefore wallet) of their audience. With that in mind is it a HUGE step to consider that the use of the media is not manipulated? I'm talking beyond political bias.

Originally posted by MauddibHumm....i just noticed the original name of the subject should read. "Iran and China Bought Missiles That Are Used To Carry Nuclear Weapons From Ukraine.... Oh well, anyone can make a mistake.

Good example here, though this was unintentional.

The big money, IMO, would be irresponsible to their own business if they didn't study thoroughly how to not only use different markets but how to present there products.......since business is more and more involved with government these days(oil is privately owned but a national resource, correct me if I'm wrong), it would stand to reason that this corporate influence could extend to international borders.

Again, this is how I see it. I'm not trying to say the government is owned and all countries are bought and paid for by the U.S. I'm stating the possibility is there and if the media is owned then the information released could be intentional and misleading part of the time.

Originally Posted by MaudibbNow the world is in favour of a war against Iran and they are puting disinfo to start a new war?..... YEAH RIIIIGHT.........

No, but justification for the war in Iraq by association.........that is my take.




[edit on 4-2-2005 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by Seekerof
it must have been the Americans? Specifically the "grubby" American Corporations? No other foreign corporations, at all? Just strictly and only the Americans and their corporations, correct?

...There are few American corporations. Most have been absorbed by multinationals. ...What you think of as "American corporations" just aren't, when you check them out.


.

"Personal put downs aside, antipigopolist..." - Seeker

Oh please Seekerof, sometimes you are so narrowsighted it's ridiculous!!! Ignorance denied does not require a link for something that should be obvious to any highschooler that can read. namehere claimed my comments are "obsurd" and I merely pointed out that he/she needs to research history abit in the same tone as was directed toward me. But if you must have a list to help you on your mission...Anyone that has paid any attention to our dealings of past with Iran (the word "contra" ring a bell?) might have heard...and I really like this line....

"Reagan claimed he had not been informed of the operation. "Really?"
Despite a January 1, 1986 entry in Reagan's personal diary that stated "I agreed to sell TOWs to Iran," the Tower Commission, which implicated North, Poindexter, and Weinberger, amongst others, could not conclusively determine the degree of Reagan's involvement." - Wikipedia,com is your friend

and I'm sure your modship has heard about...

the CIA masterminding a coup in 1953 against Prime Minister Mossadegh (Time Magazine's 1951 MOTY). The US then installed the pro-western Shah Reza Pahlavi. - iranproject.org

Yeah...all marshmellow and velveeta sugarplums!!

Here's an insightful read: www.worlddialogue.org...

Iran sits on top the world's second largest oil supply and we've been after it for half a century. Tell me that this administration is not salivating over hopes of "finding" reasons to hit the "go button"!! You'd have to have a huge blinding love to not see that, Seekerof. Do ya feel all fuzzy inside?

I could go on all day but that was your hope was it not. Small people require that!

And yeah...more care should be taken when calling someone's comedic view "obsurd" because I will return the favor and point out why! So mind your own business Seekerof. namehere obviously has an opinion and can stand up and voice it for his/her self without the help of a Mod on a mission. Your position of moderator is clouded by your bias toward my view which you clearly oppose!

And let's not forget that this is but one persons claim of weapons sold. Claim...no proof beyond an allegation of sale.

errr....html off....errr


[edit on 4-2-2005 by antipigopolist]