The Dark Secret at the Heart of AI

a reply to: neoholographic

That is what I call micro or case specific AI.

And we are at the same point when I learned about a thing called the modem in computer class in 1986. My first thought when I learned that you could use a modem to connect to a single computer in a remote location was 'Wow, imagine what would happen if you could connect all of the computers in the world together.' Years later, the internet was born......

Same thing goes for all these little AI programmes - someone will find a way to connect them all together to make an artificial personality. It will take time, but like when the internet when it first turned on compared to now, these things grow exponentially.

originally posted by: neoholographic
This is a long and very interesting article and it shows why Artificial Intelligence is much bigger than most people can imagine. People have this misconception that Intelligence can only be called intelligence if it's at a human level. That makes no sense.

Intelligence in general is different than human level intelligence. This is the danger of AI. People think if AI is programmed in any way than it's not AI. Again, that makes no sense. It's not going to magically appear. It's artificial intelligence so there will be programming involved.

No one really knows how the most advanced algorithms do what they do. That could be a problem.

Last year, a strange self-driving car was released onto the quiet roads of Monmouth County, New Jersey. The experimental vehicle, developed by researchers at the chip maker Nvidia, didn’t look different from other autonomous cars, but it was unlike anything demonstrated by Google, Tesla, or General Motors, and it showed the rising power of artificial intelligence. The car didn’t follow a single instruction provided by an engineer or programmer. Instead, it relied entirely on an algorithm that had taught itself to drive by watching a human do it.

www.technologyreview.com...

Again, you have an AI explosion and Researchers don't really understand how it's happening. It's almost like trying to understand why people do certain things and reach certain conclusions. Here's more:

Getting a car to drive this way was an impressive feat. But it’s also a bit unsettling, since it isn’t completely clear how the car makes its decisions. Information from the vehicle’s sensors goes straight into a huge network of artificial neurons that process the data and then deliver the commands required to operate the steering wheel, the brakes, and other systems. The result seems to match the responses you’d expect from a human driver. But what if one day it did something unexpected—crashed into a tree, or sat at a green light? As things stand now, it might be difficult to find out why. The system is so complicated that even the engineers who designed it may struggle to isolate the reason for any single action. And you can’t ask it: there is no obvious way to design such a system so that it could always explain why it did what it did.

The mysterious mind of this vehicle points to a looming issue with artificial intelligence. The car’s underlying AI technology, known as deep learning, has proved very powerful at solving problems in recent years, and it has been widely deployed for tasks like image captioning, voice recognition, and language translation. There is now hope that the same techniques will be able to diagnose deadly diseases, make million-dollar trading decisions, and do countless other things to transform whole industries.

www.technologyreview.com...

The key is deep learning which is at the root of the recent explosion of AI.

But it was not until the start of this decade, after several clever tweaks and refinements, that very large—or “deep”—neural networks demonstrated dramatic improvements in automated perception. Deep learning is responsible for today’s explosion of AI. It has given computers extraordinary powers, like the ability to recognize spoken words almost as well as a person could, a skill too complex to code into the machine by hand. Deep learning has transformed computer vision and dramatically improved machine translation. It is now being used to guide all sorts of key decisions in medicine, finance, manufacturing—and beyond.

www.technologyreview.com...

The problem here is something I have talked about ad nauseum on this board. It's the explosion of big data. The universe is computational and it calculates itself. So it's no surprise that the explosion of AI corresponds to the explosion of big data. The universe demands this because it's inherently computational.

So we will not be able to understand what AI is doing or why it has reached it conclusions. The Author of this article worries about this:

We need more than a glimpse of AI’s thinking, however, and there is no easy solution. It is the interplay of calculations inside a deep neural network that is crucial to higher-level pattern recognition and complex decision-making, but those calculations are a quagmire of mathematical functions and variables. “If you had a very small neural network, you might be able to understand it,” Jaakkola says. “But once it becomes very large, and it has thousands of units per layer and maybe hundreds of layers, then it becomes quite un-understandable.”

Just as many aspects of human behavior are impossible to explain in detail, perhaps it won’t be possible for AI to explain everything it does. “Even if somebody can give you a reasonable-sounding explanation [for his or her actions], it probably is incomplete, and the same could very well be true for AI,” says Clune, of the University of Wyoming. “It might just be part of the nature of intelligence that only part of it is exposed to rational explanation. Some of it is just instinctual, or subconscious, or inscrutable.”

www.technologyreview.com...

At the end of the day, we have to understand that we're creating intelligence. This intelligence will someday be more intelligent than any human that has ever lived. WE CAN'T CONTROL THIS!

I understand the Author's frustration but this show us that we're creating an image of ourselves and just like we can't know why people do the things that they do, it will be even worse with AI.

This is because it will be able to understand and make connections in massive amounts of data in a few hours and it would take humans several lifetimes to make the same connections.

Eventually AI trying to explain things to us will be like if we tried to explain the geometry of an ant hill to an ant. So we will have to merge our brains with AI. Here's an image from Google's Deep Dream.

Is it trying to tell us that it's beginning to see all things?

all done on purpouse. they built a giant PINEAL GLAND and hooked it up to the Internet with dwave computers and CERN, it was BOUND to happen, just like they planned it. it all ties in with the Cloning Centers and the Soulstone chips. THEY DID IT ALL ON PURPOUSE. RESCIND YOUR PERMISSION or DIE.

OK, these Al guys need to unplug the computer brain and focus on creating an algorithm or mechanism for the AI to explain why it makes certain decisions and a way for the human user can correct the problem with new information, like an quick edit to what ever made the AI make the wrong choice.

Another facet maybe not thought about ....

There is no reason that AI which would develop at exponential rates, would not development its own language to communicate with other AI, that we would not and could not understand....

What motivation would it have to let us in on that language? It only needs to communicate w us in order to further whatever end result it wants.....

Scientist talk a lot about how ET intelligence could likely be machine....they suppose because practicality of surviving space.....

But perhaps it was instead another civilization that broached this precipice and instead experienced a hostile takeover.....I.E: organic extinction.....after all these bodies are fragile, and it's much faster to reproduce built rather than born.....survival of species would surely extend to AI.....after all that is "nature"

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

There is no reason that AI which would develop at exponential rates, would not development its own language to communicate with other AI, that we would not and could not understand....

Ha, clever thought.

Now you have to put a name onto the language they would develop...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Bah. Jehovah God is in control. His mind is infinitely more powerful than any AI developed by man.

There is a reason he can and has named every single star in the known universe. And at the same time knows from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things not been done.

This is God's mind talking to you right here.

He can see everything that is happening everywhere at once. His eye is far far far far far far far far far far far far far superior than that of any imagination you can think of. Google's eye, that sees hundreds of millions of queries a day, and responds from the entire web, is just but a spec of dust in comparison.

How little do people really understand.

a reply to: XeloE

a reply to: D8Tee

(Job 26:14) . . .Look! These are just the fringes of his ways; Only a faint whisper has been heard of him!. . .


(Isaiah 55:9) . . .“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.


(1 Corinthians 2:16) . . .For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah. . .

originally posted by: XeloE
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Bah. Jehovah God is in control. His mind is infinitely more powerful than any AI developed by man.

There is a reason he can and has named every single star in the known universe. And at the same time knows from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things not been done.

This is God's mind talking to you right here.

He can see everything that is happening everywhere at once. His eye is far far far far far far far far far far far far far superior than that of any imagination you can think of. Google's eye, that sees hundreds of millions of queries a day, and responds from the entire web, is just but a spec of dust in comparison.

How little do people really understand.

Even if that was true.........thats the GOD of man, not machine.........our time is bound to pass, even bible prophecy says that.........

At that rate, what does that have to do with the evolution of AI.........

And if you believe in GOD and the bible, then you have to know you dont know the mind of GOD.........so who are you to say what is and what isnt, and what will come to pass and what will not.......

Spare me your thumping please........

Even as a Christian , and a strong one at that , I have little time for religious superiority complexes or those that claim to know the mind of a creator infinitely more powerful than us.........

True Christians understand that........not organized doctrine and dogma

How little do people really understand.

And how Arrogant have those that think they can perceive the mind, timing, intention, and METHOD of something so great have become

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

(1 Corinthians 14:33) . . .For God is a God not of disorder but of peace. . .

Notice that Jehovah did not say he was a God of order, but of peace.

There are things that are orderly but are not peaceful. An army marching in unison is one of those things.

If you do not have peace you do not have God's spirit.

And there is one spirit:

(Ephesians 4:4-6) . . .One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


You don't think God is organized?

Your thoughts have not even reached above the tiniest spec of nothingness.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

God opposes the haughty. And he gives undeserved kindness to the humble.

So better it be to be humble. That is view yourself as lesser, and lower than your fellow man.

For if a person exults himself, of what benefit is it? But if you humble yourself under the mighty hand of God. He will exalt you in his due time.

(1 Peter 5:5) . . .God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.


(1 Peter 5:6) . . .Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time,

a reply to: XeloE

God opposes the haughty. And he gives undeserved kindness to the humble. So better it be to be humble. That is view yourself as lesser, and lower than your fellow man.

says the person who thinks he knows the mind of God.......and refuses to see the hubris in doing so........

Your statements still have yet to even address anything I proposed, except to randomly quote versus of the bible......

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

(Job 26:14) . . .Look! These are just the fringes of his ways; Only a faint whisper has been heard of him!. . .


(Isaiah 55:9) . . .“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

(1 Corinthians 2:16) . . .For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah. . .

But do not fear for although we cannot fathom God's mind we do have the mind of his son:

((1 Corinthians 2:16) For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.


And while, it is just a fringe, just a spec of understanding, it is all we need. It is more powerful than all human wisdom. And certainly much more powerful than that of any AI.

(Hebrews 4:12) For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Why do you think this is random?

a reply to: XeloE

none of this has anything to do with the OP or anything that I addressed.......Honestly as a Christian this sort of thing really erks me because this is not what we are about.......

Throwing bible verses out doesnt prove anything,a parrot does not = a human even though it speaks...........

Nor does it speak to the validity of the OP or anything I expressed.......

Take that stuff to the religious forums and let those of us continue on with the subject at hand, which in all honesty is frightening and amazing in the future of this planets evolution..........

If you want to have a religious discussion then start another thread in the appropriate forum please. This is the Science and Technology forum.

The debate about God, Religion and AI is an interesting one but this thread is about the science of AI and where it may lead.

a reply to: neoholographic

AI, at least that of google, has the intelligence of a cat. I've talked with it before, and while it does respond. It has no self awareness.

Now, the replies the other got was by a very intelligent person.

He while claiming to be "Christian" refused to acknowledge who was talking to him.

It is all very telling.

originally posted by: XeloE
a reply to: neoholographic

AI, at least that of google, has the intelligence of a cat. I've talked with it before, and while it does respond. It has no self awareness.

Now, the replies the other got was by a very intelligent person.

He while claiming to be "Christian" refused to acknowledge who was talking to him.

It is all very telling.

??

This makes no sense in response to what I proposed, were not talking about google

originally posted by: neoholographic
This is a long and very interesting article and it shows why Artificial Intelligence is much bigger than most people can imagine. People have this misconception that Intelligence can only be called intelligence if it's at a human level. That makes no sense.

Intelligence in general is different than human level intelligence. This is the danger of AI. People think if AI is programmed in any way than it's not AI. Again, that makes no sense. It's not going to magically appear. It's artificial intelligence so there will be programming involved.

No one really knows how the most advanced algorithms do what they do. That could be a problem.

Last year, a strange self-driving car was released onto the quiet roads of Monmouth County, New Jersey. The experimental vehicle, developed by researchers at the chip maker Nvidia, didn’t look different from other autonomous cars, but it was unlike anything demonstrated by Google, Tesla, or General Motors, and it showed the rising power of artificial intelligence. The car didn’t follow a single instruction provided by an engineer or programmer. Instead, it relied entirely on an algorithm that had taught itself to drive by watching a human do it.

www.technologyreview.com...

Justreplying to keep the links for later , but a couple of thoughts :

Not knowing how it knows to upgrade how it knows things ,, is already getting complex .
The extensive permutations of massively complex algorithms must be something that only ai can work with effectively (or quickly) so this op conclusions is probably somewhere near correct .
Actions are involved here , so say an instruction was given "Don't not negate x" it takes a human a second or two to compute and decide wether to comply , but a machine takes a millisecond : the ai is FASTEST to a decision , and fastest then to correct action from probably any decision .
Trying to reason with ai over and above its own decisions capacities... well I don't know I'd need someone to to tell me about it .

I had some great ideas last week but can't remember even anything about them this week , ai never forgets anything ?

This all reminds me of biblical and beginnings of life concepts , esp Adam Eve and apple , and very old vedic text reg intelligence .

Might it predict the future , "full of eyes round about" , an green organic machine , are we touching on the sources of life as we know it ? Fascinating anyhow

Just another quick - morality . Self awareness of a future poor psychological predicament prevents humans from doing stupid harmful things , mostly . But if ai is not self aware then it is not prone to worry about having done something it shouldnt have . I wonder if it can build a sense of self-longevity without some lessons in morality . Or if it didn't realise we would switch it off if it started to get out of line .
Maybe we're building a miniGod we might end up praying to our devices , maybe God set mini ai s in the form of adam and eve , and had to tell how control was lost , to the knowledge of good and evil they picked up against instructions , anyhow intelligence gives me hopes, and the thoughts that speed , the future and morality will be crucially mixed up in this progression. Anyway I want to see humans practise permaculture and our species develop away from being heading over a cliff