Associated Press issues new guidance on gender: avoid referring to ‘both’ or ‘either’ sexes

a reply to: violet

Can somebody provide example sentences on the wrong and right ways?

As stated in the Stylebook, instead of saying "both sexes" use "men and women." For example.

soon we will not be allowed to say we are female / male.

On the contrary, you can currently say you are any gender you feel is appropriate to your self image. I am a man. See. It's easy.

All the greeting card " congratulations on your baby boy" will be a thing of the past because that little boy might have been born with gender issues and it's wrong to label him as soon as he's born.

So, you too are ignorant of sex ambiguity at birth and how an arbitrary decision for "corrective" surgery can be made.

“When needed for clarity or in certain stories about scientific studies, alternatives include men and women, boys and girls, males and females.”

How is the explicit use of the classical gender dualities "men and women", "boys and girls", "male and females" a viable alternative to "both sexes" when trying to encompass all people?

You STILL convey that there are two and only two genders (or sexes), when doing that. Just write "all sexes"/ "all genders", then people can assume whatever number they want to.

a reply to: DupontDeux

How is the explicit use of the classical gender dualities "men and women", "boys and girls", "male and females" a viable alternative to "both sexes" when trying to encompass all people?

The point is not to encompass all people, obviously. Otherwise the word "people" would suffice.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DupontDeux

How is the explicit use of the classical gender dualities "men and women", "boys and girls", "male and females" a viable alternative to "both sexes" when trying to encompass all people?

The point is not to encompass all people, obviously. Otherwise the word "people" would suffice.

It is exactly to what the quoted part of the guide is referring.

.. so avoid references to both, either or opposite sexes or genders as a way to encompass all people. When needed for clarity or in certain stories about scientific studies, alternatives include men and women, boys and girls, males and females.”

When it is needed to encompass all (by virtue of their genders), do not say "both sexes", say "men and women" etc.

a reply to: DupontDeux

When needed for clarity or in certain stories about scientific studies

In other words...if necessary. In most cases "people" works just fine. You, like the OP seem to want to make this into a big deal when it really isn't.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DupontDeux

When needed for clarity or in certain stories about scientific studies

In other words...if necessary. In most cases "people" works just fine. You, like the OP seem to want to make this into a big deal when it really isn't.

No, I do not?

I just suggest that if your goal is to not promote the view that one is either one or the other of two genders, then simply write "all" instead of "both".

That is hardly making a big deal of it.

a reply to: DupontDeux

I just suggest that if your goal is to not promote the view that one is either one or the other of two genders, then simply write "all" instead of "both".

That would work as well. But you do, at least, understand the actual point.

a reply to: seasonal

How does someone else's gender identity cause you discomfort?

How does an international publication choosing to make a minor change to their style manual that respects the personal identities of all readers while simultaneously taking nothing away from anyone cause you discomfort?

You would prefer to control the whole world and have all references reflect your own beliefs?

a reply to: WUNK22

The "get outraged over every little thing I don't 100% agree with" sickness is spreading too.

They know what they're doing with this, they know the kinds of reactions those (outraged over everything) type of people will have, which is why they do it and keep doing it.

If you're outraged over this then you have given them the exact reaction they were looking for. That goes for much of the manufactured outrage happening today in the media.

a reply to: seasonal

I'm saddened by this. Is there where we are as a society now? People are so sensitive they can't handle basic facts?

Honestly, I don't have a huge problem with transgender people, but they need to face the truth: I don't care if you've had a doctor cut off your wee-wee or make you a fake one, there are still 2 genders. Period.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DrStevenBrule

When human DNA shows that there are more than 2 sexes, I will start to reference more than 2 sexes.

Are you an AP reporter? Is that what the guidelines recommend?

As someone who works in a profession that follows AP guidelines ... this is stupid.

We do veterinary material. As part of our material, we follow AP guidelines and we already bow to PC touchy-feelie by referring to pets as she and he, but now, if we follow the AP guidelines on gender and sex for pets, we have to cut that out because you never know when you might have a pet who is sex male but gender female. So we have to be gender neutral. But that might still offend or turn off those pet owners whose pets are sex male and gender male and they like calling him a him which is the vast majority of owners (people with cisnormative pets) whom we cater too.

originally posted by: winterwind93
a reply to: seasonal

I'm saddened by this. Is there where we are as a society now? People are so sensitive they can't handle basic facts?

Honestly, I don't have a huge problem with transgender people, but they need to face the truth: I don't care if you've had a doctor cut off your wee-wee or make you a fake one, there are still 2 genders. Period.

I believe your argument intends to say there are "still 2 sexes" ... which isn't universally true either.

Sex is a determination of anatomical and biological differences which in most species differentiates by the terms male and female.

Gender is a matter of personal identity based on a number of factors including culturally-defined behaviors, etc.

Perhaps you should make sure you're dealing in reality yourself before citing someone else, eh?

And of course, the most absurd examples possible are brought up as supposedly reasonable exceptions or considerations ... like "advertising materials about pets."

Here's the bottom line: the AP is a business. They have the right to change their style manuals and requirements as they wish.

Really, there are far more pressing things to be upset about.

a reply to: seasonal

i'm with this kid,

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Yes, because 5 year olds have such nuanced visions of the world.

How does the AP making this change offend you personally?

a reply to: Gryphon66

nuanced visions? so if the five year old says he's a girl he has a better vision, please. you do realize that people are promoting letting children this young decide what they are right.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Gryphon66

nuanced visions? so if the five year old says he's a girl he has a better vision, please. you do realize that people are promoting letting children this young decide what they are right.

So again, to my question and the point of this thread ...

What about the changes in the AP style requirements bothers you personally so much?

a reply to: Gryphon66

and as my first post states i'm with him, no matter how you dress, behave, add to or take away, or call yourself, fact is your chromosomes don't change.
it's been that way for all of history , it's only been in the last 50 years that the transgender / gender movement has set out to redefine the meaning.

there satisfied.

Something like this?

... The suspect is on the loose in the area. The suspect is described as an it in its 20s, wearing a black hoodie and jeans. It is between 5'9" and 6' tall and weighing 180-200 lbs...

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Gryphon66

and as my first post states i'm with him, no matter how you dress, behave, add to or take away, or call yourself, fact is your chromosomes don't change.
it's been that way for all of history , it's only been in the last 50 years that the transgender / gender movement has set out to redefine the meaning.

there satisfied.

Right, and as I said, this discussion is not another rehashing of what we all think about transgender issues or gender identity, it's about simple changes the AP made in its style recommendations.

Do you know what those are? Did you bother to read that, or jump in based on your need to talk about your beliefs.

Might want to go back and actually read the OP.