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Vigilantes and gangs

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posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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Vigilantes and gangs

I have often wondered what the difference is between groups that at the point of their beginnings seem to have similar goals yet pursue these gaols so differently.


From the context of any time definitions exist. These definitions may not be the same as those from another time.

Vigilant groups (hereafter Vigilantes) are generally perceived to be citizen groups organized to protect part of society from brigands, ruffians and other criminal activities. As Grady pointed out in another thread, ATS news story, some Vigilante heritage comes down to us as being nothing more than anarchists and murderers.

Without a doubt, the most 'notorious' Vigilante group in American history was the Ku Klux Klan. Yet even here perception, history and reality are not always in concert.

To a large degree, modern day (2005) perceptions of the Ku Klux Klan are based hearsay, rumor and prejudice.

How about gangs?

Were they ever relevant? Did they ever produce positive results? Why do some neighborhoods develop gangs and others do not? Are some ethnic groups more predisposed to gangs than others?
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posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Some have noted that the gangs in manhattan in the Boss Tweed era were instrumental in expanding the power of the city-wide political machinery, and also were necessary in order to politicize and incorporate otherwise marginal individuals into the mainstream. Modern street gangs don't seem to serve that purpose.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Modern street gangs don't seem to serve that purpose.

To a large degree I believe this is true.

I have to wonder though, without gangs in many instances what would happen to the neighborhoods.

I can see (historicallY) the Mafia, Crips/Bloods, etc. serving a purpose to the acquisition of power if even limited.

Are ganga and vigilantes opposites?

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posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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ummmmm?....(ponders).....i would thing in modern times street gangs are more easily described as an un-organized thugs,trudging our streets looking for any way possible to make a quick buck from many forms of crime,mainly muggings or shoplifting and in the worst instances violent assault or armed asault.....sadly sometimes theft isnt even the motive just blatant violent assault for a quick power trip.
Vigilantes however seem to try and promote or link themselves to a worthy cause that will benefit others...(with a link somewhere along the line to a stance of moral high ground) as they take the law into their own hands......why do they do this?....probably because they feel that the law is not being upheld effectiveley by the persons permitted to act within it or because they feel that the persons being caught by these relevent authorities are not able to administor a 'fitting' punishment?...one that they feel they can administor?
For example a few years ago in manchester,uk...a local housing estate had a problem with drug dealers supplying children with class A drugs (mainly crack) the police were struggling to maintain a strong enough presence on these streets and a local group of vigilantes (parents) rounded up a handfull of dealers,beat them,stripped them naked and tied them to a lamp post with the words 'I sell drugs to young children' emblazed on a sign above them.....when interviewed by a local newspaper members of the local community reported that there had been little if no signs of drug dealing after this event?
Probably shortly after this there was but for a limited period....'parents 1-drug dealers 0'
I cant ever imagine using the words 'KKK' and vigilante in the same sentance so it depends on your stance?

Regards.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks
Are ganga and vigilantes opposites

I don't see how they can be considered opposites. The KKK and Posse Comititatus type groups consider themselves vigilantes, but basically they're just craven criminal gangs like hte mafia or Mara Salvatrusca and the like.


optimus fett
street gangs are more easily described as an un-organized thugs[...]Vigilantes however seem to try and promote or link themselves to a worthy cause that will benefit others

When its your gang its a group of vigilantes, when they're comming after you its a gang of thugs. Some street gangs are unorganized, but not the ones that you'd hear about. The Crips and Bloods, for example, maintain membership and coordinatin from coast to coast, MS-13 organizes on an international level. Sometimes a 'vigilante' is presented as a good guy, taking the law into his own hands when the system has become corrupt. But, hell, everyone thinks they're the good guy, defending their interests, taking the real law into their own hands under a corrupt system.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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IMO most of the larger "street gangs" are very organized. they might even
be considered Domestic Terrorists.

Committees of Vigilence often served a purpose in the community, many times
they became overzealous and powercrazed but at others they acted when
what lawenforcement there was could not. During their heyday law was a chancy thing few officers and fewer courts. what there was in the areas of
greater population was an abundance of lawyers ( pronounced LIARS) willing
to do most anything for the right price. [ remember the story about scientists,
lab rats and lawyers], the situation today IMO is not much different.

perhaps the original Knights of the Kuklos Clan were or could be considered
vigilaltes but from the second grouping on they were and are nothing but
hatemongers and terrorists.

IMO if we reverted to the practices of the 1880s things could be much different.
" an armed society is a polite society."



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:09 PM
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A member of the "Bloods" was arrested here in Toledo last week on suspision of Drug dealing... etc...

just about 3 miles from where I live and work... in a very nice subdivision.. would've never guessed it..



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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New national gang- MS-13

(more news at 11)


I read a little on these guys- from Honduras I believe, really bad dudes.

Did all gangs begin bad? I don't think so. Many were kind of 'street justice' types that went too far.

I know that sound bizarre with the national reach of many, but I can remember a few groups many years back just trying for 'justice' from the man. I've seen a few of these same guys now and they are world class thugs.

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posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks
New national gang- MS-13

(more news at 11)


I read a little on these guys- from Honduras I believe,

El salvador. The name is something liek 'mara salvatrusca' meaning 'gang elsalvadorean', apparently its actually a conglomeration of two gangs from over there


really bad dudes.

Yes, the feds are cracking down on them along with regular law enforcement groups. They're an international gaggle of criminals and petty theives, all worked into a system that specializes, apparently, in human smuggling (a very bloody business).


Many were kind of 'street justice' types that went too far.

Thats the thing tho, any 'street justice' is too far. A group of guys perceives a problem/threat/slight. They respond. Street justice requires that the other guys respond. Instant escalation. Worked with teh irish gangs, the mafia, the modern gangs, heck, even the jewish gangs that used to be around.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Many were kind of 'street justice' types that went too far.

Thats the thing tho, any 'street justice' is too far. A group of guys perceives a problem/threat/slight. They respond. Street justice requires that the other guys respond. Instant escalation. Worked with teh irish gangs, the mafia, the modern gangs, heck, even the jewish gangs that used to be around.

Yes, so true.
In the old west (Americana) the Lincoln County War started out as a type of 'street justice' that went too far.


(Global Security) The so-called Lincoln County War began in 1878 and dragged on until 1881. At that time Lincoln County covered nearly one-fifth of the entire territory. It was the largest county in the United States. The Lincoln County War was no less bloody than other wars which have struck the area. This particular war arose from conflicts between rival New Mexico cattle barons.



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