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Iraqi Election Redux

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posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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"They're a farce. They're rigged. An election held under foreign military occupation is always, by definition, utterly flawed. But one which is held in the kind of conditions in which this one is being held is flawed beyond redemption. The facts are that it is simply impossible to hold an election when there is a full-scale war going on between the occupying armies and the resistance forces. The Sunni Muslim population, which if you add the Sunni Kurds and the Sunni Arabs together, is some 40% of the population, are deeply anxious about the way in which the occupying forces are deliberately trying to divide the country along confessional lines. The Sunni Arab population has boycotted the election almost in their entirety. The Iraqis living outside for whom security was not an issue, three quarters of them have voted with their feet and boycotted the election. Less than a quarter of the eligible voters have registered to vote and fewer still have cast their votes. So, this is a festival, a farce that's been held to validate the American-British invasion and occupation of Iraq. But it will not validate it, neither in the eyes of the world opinion, nor, more importantly, in the eyes of those Iraqis who are resisting the foreign occupation and the war will go on, I'm sorry to say."

British MP George Galloway on Elections in Occupied Iraq

"Iraq is a train wreck. The man who caused it is not in trouble. Tomorrow night he will give his State of the Union speech, and the Washington establishment will applaud him. Tens of thousands of Iraqis are dead. More than 1,400 Americans are dead. An Arab nation is humiliated. Islamic hatred of the West is ignited. The American military is emasculated. Lies define the foreign policy of the United States. On all sides of Operation Iraqi Freedom, there is wreckage. In the center, there are the dead, the maimed, the displaced -- those who will be the ghosts of this war for the rest of their days. All for what?"

James Carroll, Author & Boston Globe Columnist


Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll... "Two of the food dealers I know told me personally that our food rations would be withheld if we did not vote," said Saeed Jodhet, a 21-year-old engineering student who voted in the Hay al-Jihad district of Baghdad. Many Iraqis had expressed fears before the election that their monthly food rations would be cut if they did not vote. They said they had to sign voter registration forms in order to pick up their food supplies.

Voting for .....FOOD!


" I do not believe that the election is legitimate, the election is held under the occupation. The occupying power has modified the basic rules in Iraq as to who is an Iraqi and who is not. The election was shoved down our throat because all the major parties, including Allawi's party, requested that the election be postponed. That was in November. And before even the independent electoral commission could decide on the request, that President Bush said he does not want the election to be postponed and Ambassador Negroponte said, oddly enough, it came from Fallujah. He was in Fallujah, and declared that the elections will be held on the January 30. It is an Iraqi election, it is not a U.S. election, it is not Negroponte's election, it is the Iraqi people's election. So, if the Iraqi parties wanted to postpone the election, they should have been able to do so without the interference of the United States government.

Anyway, having done the election now, it was forced down our throat, a lot of people have boycotted it. The Sunnis have boycotted the elections. Some of the Shias boycotted it. Muktadar Al Sadr faction boycotted the election. Al Khalaf faction boycotted the election. There is a resistance to the occupation in Iraq. This resistance stems from the fact that our life has been, for the last 22 months, deteriorating day and night and we have not seen any improvement in our condition for the last 22 months, nor that anything has been reconstructed. The telephone system is bad, the electricity is worse, the security condition is worse. A lot of people are saying, why do I vote? What does the government do for me? They did absolutely nothing. The shocking thing is that the conditions after 22 months of occupation is a lot worse in every single aspect of life than with Saddam Hussein, after 12 years of sanction.

While I'm talking to you I just heard two bombs exploding not too far from here. I did not vote and I will not vote to any one of those people who came on the back of the American banks. I do not see any change because there is no will to reconstruct anything. There is no will to improve the life of the Iraqis. It is going to take another two years and a lot of will. Mind you, in 1991, with the huge destruction in Iraq, we, the Iraqi people, despite the sanctions and with no help from anybody, we were able to restore the electricity, we were able to restore the water, the sewage and in six months we were able to rebuild the country in less than a year. Now that time has gone. The U.S. had 22 months occupation and they have not fixed a single thing in Iraq. We are still getting 2,000 to 2,200 calories on the ration system. We were told that Saddam Hussein was stealing our money both in the palaces and keeping us poor and hungry. But now after 22 months, we are still getting 2200 calories or sometimes less. "


Ghazwan Al-Mukhtar, retired Iraqi engineer, non-political man on the street

"I am an Iraqi woman, and I am boycotting the elections. Women who do vote will be voting for an enslaved future. Surely, say those who support these elections, after decades of tyranny, here at last is a form of democracy, imperfect, but democracy nevertheless?

In reality, these elections are, for Iraq's women, little more than a cruel joke. Amid the suicide attacks, kidnappings and U.S.-led military assaults since Saddam Hussein's fall, the little-reported phenomenon is the sharp increase in the persecution of Iraqi women. Women are the new victims of Islamic groups intent on restoring a medieval barbarity and of a political establishment that cares little for women's empowerment.

Having for years enjoyed greater rights than other Middle East women, women in Iraq are losing even their basic freedoms -- the right to choose their clothes, the right to love or marry whom they want. Of course women suffered under Saddam. I fled his cruel regime. I personally witnessed much brutality but the subjugation of women was never a Baath Party goal. What we are seeing is deeply worrying: a reviled occupation and an openly reactionary Islamic armed insurrection taking Iraq into a new dark age."


Houzan MahMoud, Head of the Organization of Women's Freedom in Iraq

Here's My Two Drakma:

- A farce & a poorly scripted morality play. It has been such a sickening illustration on how deeply our news sources, the American Media, have been both corrupted and made complicit to the furtherment of the Bush regime. The impartial & altruistic FOURTH ESTATE has been overrun, conquered and brought completely under thumb. Tremendously askew voter turnout numbers were the info crawl on all broadcasts, while the graphics departments out did themselves in portraying lovely Orwellian subliminals right up front. The talking heads did not disappoint either: they all lauded a White House "victory" in bringing a vote to fore that no Iraqi deemed they were ready for, that nobody on the Arab street even remotely believes would stave off a religious civil war, and that no one in the World community realistically acknowledges as fruitful - given the abject occupation - massive boycotts - and small percentage of voter locations.

Make no mistake: this was a Strawman Exercise - something that a State of the Union speech could be crafted around, so false accomplishment that was wholly manufactured. It follows the line, their line, of reality.......create the issue & then "solve it".....after all, that's why we're in Iraq to begin with.

Who would think that life in 2005 can be conveyed & covered so well through 2 Spanish masterpiece paintings:

El sueno de la razon produce monstruos & Guernica




posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Speaking of galloway, did they ever clear up that whole being on hussein's payroll thing? I remember teh controversy, but didn't see anything about the resolution.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Funny Bout Time...

You raved and moaned but never provided a suitable alternative.

Would you rather have had the US pick a leader for the Iraqis? Or have the status quo of anarchy?


It's not just you either, NOT ONE person I have seen or read complaining about the elections have provided an alternative. Not one.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:20 PM
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Absolutely brilliant Bout time. ...I posted something similar, but nowhere near as good or comprehensive. ...The main crit basically said, "If we focus on the negatives we'll never get out of there, and it'll cost us another fortune." In the interests of compromise and choosing my battles, I backed off.

Go guy.


.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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It's not just you either, NOT ONE person I have seen or read complaining about the elections have provided an alternative. Not one.


Here's one. Rather than having a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election... have a clean one! It is an ambitious undertaking well beyond the management capability and ethical constructs of the Bush administration, but it is a useful alternative for any person that cares about "democratization" or the future stability of Iraq.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Here's one. Rather than having a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election... have a clean one!


Hmmmm... Ok Masked... Given your quote, I suppose you'll be providing this forum with the evidence that the Iraqi election was "Dirty, corrupt [and] fraudulent" correct? I mean, wow, what better place to post such evidence than a site like ATS!



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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If the Iraqi people feel like they're voted counted and have pride in their vote, then does it matter if it was staged? As long as the Iraqi's are happy then I will be happy and will consider this "democracy" a success, whether it is a puppet government or not. As long as Iraqi's are happy.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

It's not just you either, NOT ONE person I have seen or read complaining about the elections have provided an alternative. Not one.


Here's one. Rather than having a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election... have a clean one! It is an ambitious undertaking well beyond the management capability and ethical constructs of the Bush administration, but it is a useful alternative for any person that cares about "democratization" or the future stability of Iraq.



Good point. Good quote.


.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Funny Bout Time...

You raved and moaned but never provided a suitable alternative.


I've never raved nor moaned in my life time....even sexual satisfaction is in the grunt category!

Would you rather have had the US pick a leader for the Iraqis? Or have the status quo of anarchy?

We did pick a leader , or do you actually believe this outcome was NOT predetermined? Voting during a military occupation, sponsored by the occupiers....what outcome did you expect?


It's not just you either, NOT ONE person I have seen or read complaining about the elections have provided an alternative. Not one.

Not true. Alternate to the election Sunday? For starters, don't rush it through in order to simply give the incompetant pResident of ours some more soundbyte fodder......watch the SoU speech & tell me how many times you count the "bringing freedom to the world" canard.....while sidestepping the clusterf***k of the US.
Just by putting the "free" into free election, having more than a handful of places as poll stations, compromise so that all 3 ethnic groups participated.....that would have been an alternative......you hear them less than the critiques for a simple reason; it's so obvious, anyone with a desire for an honest answer can figure it out.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
We did pick a leader , or do you actually believe this outcome was NOT predetermined? Voting during a military occupation, sponsored by the occupiers....what outcome did you expect?

From Drudge

First results coming in...
United Iraqi Alliance, backed by Iranian-born Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, leads with 1.1 million votes.

The ticket headed by interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a U.S.-backed secular Shiite, trailed second with more than 360,500 votes....



I'm sorry, you were saying?



Oh and we're still waiting for your proof showing this to be a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election Masked.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird


Oh and we're still waiting for your proof showing this to be a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election Masked.




The Lord does not really also serve those who stand and wait. That's a myth.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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So......you have none.

That's cool man.
We all make mistakes. No biggie.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
So......you have none.

That's cool man.
We all make mistakes. No biggie.


don't put words in his mask. he didn't make a mistake. the patterns and people of fascism are easily traceable. global fascism is coming, and dubya is leading the charge. only power elite will ever be 'elected' into offices of power administration. the mistake would be to ignore the forest for the trees.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Oh and we're still waiting for your proof showing this to be a dirty, corrupt, fraudulent election Masked.



The Lord does not really also serve those who stand and wait. That's a myth.



Translation: I have no evidences or proofs for my saying such; my word is like the Lord.




seekerof



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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as posted by billybob
don't put words in his mask. he didn't make a mistake. the patterns and people of fascism are easily traceable. global fascism is coming, and dubya is leading the charge. only power elite will ever be 'elected' into offices of power administration. the mistake would be to ignore the forest for the trees.


I don' think the member is putting "words into his mask."
The member asked a question concerning the unsubstantiated assertions made by another member. The member in question, who you claim was having words "put into his mask," has yet to provide anything resembling verifiable confirmation or backing to his unsubstantiated assertions. There is no ignoring the "forest from the trees" or "trees from the forest". That's what chainsaws are for, anyhow. Forest? Trees? Makes no difference to the chainsaw.





seekerof



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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So......you have none.

That's cool man.
We all make mistakes. No biggie.


the mask never admitted he was wrong. therefore, the member, that'sjustwierd, was speaking for the mask.

i can see you have a penchant for chainsaws, seekerof. rather DESTROY everything then try and grok it. nice.

and, like i said, the patterns of fascism are easily traceable. individual fascists are also readily identified by their methods and rhetoric.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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While Seekerof is using the trees to (inefficiently and irrationally) make toothpicks and sawdust and bizarre carvings of dubious purpose.

The most useful evidence of maladministration is in the experience of Iraqi voters. Like I said, wait till the dust settles and you have even a semblance of the facts about what happened in the Iraq election rather than the crud you are currently being spoon-fed for propaganda purposes.

Did you not enjoy your purple-fingered avatar that you kept for a few minutes? It is wrong for you to attempt to speak for another. Maybe this will take you some additional time to learn.




*Edit*

billybob

Your observations of human nature and interactions are fecund with profundity as always, LOL.

As you are a man of principle I think many would be happy for you to represent their cause.



[edit on 3-2-2005 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
While Seekerof is using the trees to (inefficiently and irrationally) make toothpicks and sawdust and bizarre carvings of dubious purpose.


indubitably. i wonder, 'has seekerof stopped seeking?' 'does he have all the answers?' 'are we mere mortals, compared to His galaxy of gnosis?', 'is he projecting when he accuses you of i'mgoditis?'.

no serious offence intended, seekerof. it's just that you seem to be a little heavyhanded with MA here, when there are clearly references from bout time's initial post to evidence that things are not as there are made to appear.


Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
billybob

Your observations of human nature and interactions are fecund with profundity as always, LOL.

As you are a man of principle I think many would be happy for you to represent their cause.



LOL, indeed. fecund with profundity. good one.

fertile pro fun ditty, man. may the meme bless you and yours. you too, seekerof.



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