Thousands of people could live in space colonies orbiting the Earth in 20 years, expert claims

We have covered this topic in breakaway civilization threads before.
I'm not sure the "away teams" have it much better than the general earth population.
Could be refugee problems resulting from ego needs that could make the situation turn ugly.

originally posted by: Cauliflower

I'm not sure the "away teams" have it much better than the general earth population. Could be refugee problems resulting from ego needs that could make the situation turn ugly.

Jamestown was pretty dismal, too. The colony nearly perished and some of those early colonies for example, Roanoke, did. But it turned out okay. One recent book some may find interesting does with this very subject of near-Earth space colonization. It is Neal Stephenson's Seven Eves. The premise is that the Moon gets hit and breaks up resulting in a hard rain that kills all life on Earth--excepting for a small space colony that managed to get off in time. 20,000 years later the population, which initially nearly perished--just like Jamestown--is ready to colonize a new planet--Earth. Fascinating read in a story only Neal Stephenson could tell. Sometimes you need a long-term view.

Mars...... because maybe, just maybe it would inspire young people. Maybe when they are deciding their major, Banking or Business will take a back seat to Science and Math.
Maybe there could be a school there that would make MIT seem little league.

Lets not have our generations legacy be leaving our kids with terrorism and turmoil.... We should start the ball rolling and give our young people something more..... give them inspiration and something to dream about.
The parents who gives birth to the first Martian..... are alive right now. The doctor who will deliver that baby is out there somewhere, his name to be forever etched in medical history.

Once we commit to being space faring.... it will take all of us here working together, to keep keep any sizable population not just alive.... but expanding and growing...... I think a common goal would do the world some good

a reply to: schuyler

In 20 years, she forsees people inhabiting the moon and the asteroids, mining their materials. ''In 20 years,'' she said, ''there is the possibility of a cosmic civilization.''

A GLIMPSE OF THE YEAR 2000
By N.R. KLEINFIELD
Published: January 10, 1982

www.nytimes.com...

I guess when people makes predictions over 20 years they expect people to be dead by then or forget what never came to be

originally posted by: Zimnydran

Once we commit to being space faring.... it will take all of us here working together, to keep keep any sizable population not just alive.... but expanding and growing...... I think a common goal would do the world some good

YES!! Thanks for an inspiring post.

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: schuyler

I guess when people makes predictions over 20 years they expect people to be dead by then or forget what never came to be

Good Lord! Don't you get it? You guys must be fun at parties. WHO CARES if someone makes a prediction that doesn't pan out? It doesn't matter. Edison tested 1000 substances before he got a light bulb to work. Read Ray Kurzweil's In the age of spiritual machines Here's a guy who has made DOZENS of right-on predictions. He has a track record, including predicting the Internet itself before it happened. Negative Nellies and Debbie Downers are a dime a dozen and contribute nothing useful except pessimism. Look up! Look to the stars! Stop this woe is me, I'm Eeyore stuff. It's friggin' pathetic.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
And some people wonder why "experts" don't hold that much credibility with so many people. I will guarantee these "experts" are dead wrong, but I'm not an "expert", so please don't listen to me.

OK, I won't, because if we listened to people with your sentiment we'd never cross a river because, you know, it might be dangerous and we're not sure what's on the other side. There could be dragons or cannibals or we might fall off. It's much better to stay here where it's comfy and never venture forth. That's the smart way to live your life. Vision is over-rated.

Nothing in your reply applies to me. I never said we shouldn't do it, I'm saying it won't be done. If it could be done, I'd be the first to volunteer. At some point this will happen, but if you think it's coming within 20 years, I think you vastly overestimate our space capabilities. Like NASA getting people on Mars by the 30's (yeah right), or Musk commercially orbiting people around the moon within 10 years (get real), these are worthy goals, that are nowhere close to within our reach.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
And some people wonder why "experts" don't hold that much credibility with so many people. I will guarantee these "experts" are dead wrong, but I'm not an "expert", so please don't listen to me.

OK, I won't, because if we listened to people with your sentiment we'd never cross a river because, you know, it might be dangerous and we're not sure what's on the other side. There could be dragons or cannibals or we might fall off. It's much better to stay here where it's comfy and never venture forth. That's the smart way to live your life. Vision is over-rated.

Like NASA getting people on Mars by the 30's (yeah right), or Musk commercially orbiting people around the moon within 10 years (get real), these are worthy goals, that are nowhere close to within our reach.

Both those goals are easy peasy. We could go around the Moon TODAY and Musk will do it not IN ten years, but WITHIN ten years. I'm guessing five. It's going to be an interesting decade. Luckily he's making the decisions and is not restricted to the 'it can't be Done!' crowd. The problem here is that people have no idea how fast things are moving right now. They keep looking at the ground and proclaiming it's still there. The lack of vision is just astounding.

The analysis first considered the levels of cosmic rays during the current sunspot cycle. Using the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's current radiation-exposure standards for astronauts, it found that astronauts would exceed their career radiation-dose limit in 300 to 400 days traveling beyond low-Earth orbit, depending on age and gender. A round trip to and from Mars could take from 300 to 600 days, depending on mission design.

www.csmonitor.com...


Sure there are ways to lessen this effect but one very important one would be to go faster.

Radiation biology is an interdisciplinary science that examines the biological effects of radiation on living systems. To fully understand the relationship between radiation and biology, and to solve problems in this field, researchers incorporate fundamentals of biology, physics, astrophysics, planetary science, and engineering. The Space Faring: The Radiation Challenge educator guide helps to link these disciplines by providing background, discussion questions, objectives, research questions, and inquiry-based activities to introduce radiation biology into your high school science classroom. The suggested activities are hands-on investigations that encourage the use of science, mathematics, engineering, technology, problem solving, and inquiry skills. The activities provide a general framework that can be modified based on student needs and classroom resources. This guide is aligned with the National Science Education Standards of Science as Inquiry, Physical Science, and Life Science, and has been organized into the following sections and activities:

www.nasa.gov...


To be clear such a trip today is not impossible but ideally today best bet would be placing people in some kind of suspended animation.

During this time they would be protected by layers of metallic, chemical or otherwise shielding in a closed environment that would provide life support.

Something the size of a Coffin.

As if boredom, cramped conditions, and limited company were not enough to worry about on a voyage to Mars, future astronauts will face brain damage from cosmic rays too.

Researchers in the US exposed mice to streams of high energy particles– similar to those found in galactic cosmic rays - and found they produced nervous system damage that caused the animals’ performance to plummet.

www.theguardian.com...

Politics aside....

Real Martians: How to Protect Astronauts from Space Radiation on Mars and more...

www.nasa.gov...

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
And some people wonder why "experts" don't hold that much credibility with so many people. I will guarantee these "experts" are dead wrong, but I'm not an "expert", so please don't listen to me.

OK, I won't, because if we listened to people with your sentiment we'd never cross a river because, you know, it might be dangerous and we're not sure what's on the other side. There could be dragons or cannibals or we might fall off. It's much better to stay here where it's comfy and never venture forth. That's the smart way to live your life. Vision is over-rated.

Like NASA getting people on Mars by the 30's (yeah right), or Musk commercially orbiting people around the moon within 10 years (get real), these are worthy goals, that are nowhere close to within our reach.

Both those goals are easy peasy.

NASA getting people to Mars in 15-20 years is "easy peasy" ? When right now they can't even put someone into orbit? I like your optimism, but I think it is bordering more on delusion at this point. I imagine when you were a kid you thought we'd be living like the Jetsons by now. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but I don't think our space capabilities are nearly as far along as they should be.

There is already so many junk floating around the earth, why send more?
Who is gonna clean up all that stuff?
www.orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov...

Talking about the oceans eh. Humans are filthy creatures

Maybe first we need to find a solution for all this junk. If this keeps going you can forget space travel.
We will lock our self's inside a ring of spacetrash.
Astronauts will need an extra course on 'how to become a world champion in Space Invaders'

a reply to: DBCowboy

I have been a Member of the L5 Society Since the Late 1970's , but due to Most People losing Interest in Space Exploration since that time , it is Nice to See Some of Us have Kept the Dream alive . Lagrange Point Habitats should have been a Reality by now , but like Flying Cars , it Still seems to be just a Dream Not Come True .....Yet .

originally posted by: luciferslight
once we hit that 20 year mark, it'd be the poor on earth, while the rich are out of here.

2036-37 huh? Astro said something about that year as well. Either a reveal or a exodus.

Say for example you (plural) were a modern day Astronaut and you were tasked with a mission, with a modern day state of the art spacecraft to Titan.

So basically you would want to totally avoid running into Jupiter....

The harshest radiation is within about 300,000 kilometers (about 200,000 miles) of the giant planet. NASA's Galileo has been orbiting farther out than that, and Cassini was nearly 10 million kilometers (6 million miles) from Jupiter when it passed by three months ago on its way to Saturn. Both of those craft have especially durable electronics hardened to withstand radiation.

www.sciencedaily.com...

a reply to: Kashai

Sure, if we can invent an energy efficient propulsion system that would get someone there quicker a lot of the challenges of keeping a human alive and healthy in sub earth gravity could be minimised, but not overcome completely.

Then once we get there we still have to figure out how to keep your bones from breaking in a light breeze and your eyes from developing glaucoma.

There has been next to no research done in the past 40 years on the effects of long term less than earth gravity on the human body. (there's a reason why cosmonauts have to be carried from the landing module when they arrive back on earth.)

Then there's the issues of cosmic radiation. Micro asteroids pelting your habitat like speeding bullets, water recycling, growing a sustainable food source etc.

The only glimmer of hope is the possibility that NASA's EM drive experiment is actually more than a statistical error, or that we spend billions to get a viable VISMIR system.

Of course, you could build a nuclear electric engine, but I don't see the Russians and Chinese being happy with NASA putting anything resembling a nuclear reactor into near earth orbit. (And as much as I'd like to go, I'm not sure I'd be the first to volunteer to sit on top of the chemical rocket that gets it there.)

In the last 40 years, we have not created one single experiment to try and produce a greater than zero gravity habitat. The rockets and engines that were originally intended to be used for this were mothballed and used a lawn ornaments after we left the moon.

Given what we know now about the effects of long term zero or less than earth gravity on the human body, we're a long way off a manned mission further than the moon and back. And even then the best we can hope for is a quick 'flags and footprints' dash.

If we are relying NASA leading the way, then we need to find 100 billion dollars to get a viable plan and even that will take a couple of generations. And we are going to loose astronauts in the process. Human losses were what doomed the space shuttle, without a serious and proven reason for accepting that risk, I don't see Congress approving it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but if it does it's not going to government funded and we're at least a couple of Nobel prizes away from it being a possibility in our lifetime.

a reply to: redshoes


Easiest Most Cost Effective Way to get Payloads into Orbit would be this........







science.nasa.gov...

a reply to: redshoes


The EM drive would be significant but the reality is there is not way to generate a magnetic field using the mass of a space-craft,unless we build then to a planetary scale.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I've got several books that more or less said the same thing by the year 2000.
And where is my personal flying car? The exact same thing was said about it.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: DBCowboy
Elysium?

Only if Communist countries fall before Space colonization.