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Time and causality are just an illusion.

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posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: frenchfries

For this to be true you would have to believe neither
Space nor time could be altered... Or that space is fixed...
There is time just as space but your perception of time can be altered by your movement through space or by moving space itself...
Space and time or space time are all the same thing they are reflections of one another...

edit on 23-2-2017 by 5StarOracle because: Word




posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: frenchfries

Centripetal force could theoretically be used to create artificial gravity in space. I'm not sure why I brought it up, but seriously I was just answering your questions.
Another unrelated side note is that the earths spinning is reducing gravity felt by someone on the equator. To say there is no observable causality between them is still wrong.

And it is pretty absurd that you keep saying "time dilation only measures the difference between two refernce points" because how else would you be able to tell a is experiencing time different than b if b wouldn't be there?

And the rest must be in your native alien language?



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Well thanks for answering my questions....



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: frenchfries




So we measure a movement and call it : Time.


Agreed. I said the same back in 2012.



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: frenchfries

not entirely true. It can absolutely be a dimension. It simply is a dimension that we are stuck on. It would be as though we were stuck inside a ruler and could only walk along it in one direction and had to measure it as we went. It becomes very difficult to measure it definitively but that doesn't change that the ruler physically exists and is measurable.

Time is the same way. It is only measurable by humanity at the moment in one direction. That could easily change in the future.

Jaden



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: frenchfries


Think about it we can move in all 3 spacial dimensions we can measure a meter again and again.


Given time and space being inseparable in your context, that 'meter' you have measured a second or a minute ago, might not be the same 'meter'.

cheers)



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: DeReK DaRkLy
a reply to: frenchfries




So we measure a movement and call it : Time.


Agreed. I said the same back in 2012.


You also measure movement and call it : Velocity: for example. Movement cannot be substituted for time. Neither velocity. Object in motion is object in motion.

))) great thread. Thanks.



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: frenchfries

For this to be true you would have to believe neither
Space nor time could be altered... Or that space is fixed...
There is time just as space but your perception of time can be altered by your movement through space or by moving space itself...
Space and time or space time are all the same thing they are reflections of one another...


Agree with you on this. Space and time are the same thing or , as you put it, a reflection of one another.

In my view , both exist as a result of movement. Without movement thee is no space nor time.

The sun moving across the sky gave us the clock. It was just a matter of dividing one cycle into days, hours etc. If we had no Sun , we might use some other movement to measure time- perhaps a small plant growing in a pot (again movement), or a candle burning out.

It is the same with Space, it only exists because there is movement. Imagine if we could see but not move and there were nothing moving in nature; no birds , no wind blowing things around, etc. In such a case , the outside world would be as flat as a picture to our eyes. This is because we would have no means of establishing that there ia a space between one object and another since nothing can move from one to the other.

In the end , only movement exists. Space and Time are just products of movement.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Yes indeed that could be the case and that is how time is explained in textbooks. But by defining time as a movement on not a ruler but on a (nearly infinite dimensional space) one gets rid of the wave-particle duality.

Just imagine every point in that infinite (nearly infinite ) space is a state of the universe. And imagine yourself choosing the state that you want to experience. Notting really moves in that space (hence no time and causality). It's the observer of that nearly infinite dimensional space that creates the illusion of movement.

Note :

Kind of silly , but I just realized (thanks to the people of ATS) that there is no fundamental difference between my interpretation and the regular interpretation of time. The only difference is that instead assigning one dimension for time I assigned nearly infinite...



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 02:31 AM
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originally posted by: frenchfries
Note :

Kind of silly , but I just realized (thanks to the people of ATS) that there is no fundamental difference between my interpretation and the regular interpretation of time. The only difference is that instead assigning one dimension for time I assigned nearly infinite...


That is funny. You were seeking confirmation on "no time and no causality" and kind of tripped and stumbled into infinity (which is actually the correct answer, I think.)

I guess it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there...

but this was my way:
1.nothing and nowhere doesn't exist, so what does exist must have always existed in some form or another (things can't come from nowhere if nowhere doesn't exist)

2.what does exist must have always existed in some form or another and that means eternity exists

3.because eternity exists, change (effect) must have been initiated (caused) by an event free of cause (because an effect cannot be its own cause)

4.the only thing that can answer the demand, the only thing that can cause change but itself be free of cause, the only thing that can be its own effect, is free will.

5.eternity = time = change = free will = infinite possibilities

bonus:
6.for change to occur, free will (the spirit) requires determination, measurement, quantization, conception, translation (father)

7.matter, physicality, concepts, solution, quanta, qualia, the Word is the image or body of measurement (the son)

e.g.
The words of this post are the image of my measurement of my will. They are what I conceived of time - they are the words of my translation of my spirit.

edit2:
moment = momentum = measured change = body
space-time = space[measurement of]time; the "-" should stand for "measurement of".
edit on 2/24/2017 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 03:48 AM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep

ah bleeep thanks, I had to read this several times to understand it . There is a phylosophical level to this.

Well the title of my thread was more of a physical level and I should have explained that better. If meant to say that causal realations and time are illusions created by the observer of this reality (physical). So they are connected to the observer.

However on a more fundamental level indeed there is time (real time is just not part of the physical universe but a mathematical concept ) and created by the observer.


3.because eternity exists, change (effect) must have been initiated (caused) by an event free of cause (because an effect cannot be its own cause)

Completely right in my opinion. In my 'theory' (or whatever you may call it ) it's the observer that isn't part off the universa it observes. This observer is the creator of the illusion causal eventstream aka Time. In my view time is nothing more that the shifting from one to another state of a near infinite multidimensional universum...

So in my opinion Time is still an illusion... it's an eventstream created by an observer on the outside of reality (maybe the soul



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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Time is the slow motion applied to movement from point A to point B. Time is not fast motion, it is the decayer of movement. Omnipresence is the default state of the pre-polar universe.

Time is 'order'. Restriction, resistance.

Time is the only limiting factor which gives labor value.

Without time, we would be omnipresent, as there would be no resistance in moving from point to point.

Entropy is escape from this reserve storage order. Gaining back the wider playing field, and encompassing both point A and B simultaneously.

--------------------

Sine-cosine represent all functions. The digital aspect is the periodic counting. There is no Time, only an obsession to quantify the uncountable and hoard the approximations



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 05:51 PM
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The only difference is that instead assigning one dimension for time I assigned nearly infinite...


Agree. But in my opinion only because time is not real dimension. Unlike other three spatial dimensions, time can be infinite and also 'nullified', I mean being equal to zero in math formulas. Easy quick proof of time not a dimension -- 2D + time doesn't make sense, information incomplete. On the other hand: 3D (on xyz coordinate system position of physical point) can be completely defined and self evident. 'Time' can be omitted in 3D space and hence not a dimension. No?

'Time' flux seems like driving engine behind cosmic expansion. 'Dark energy' effect, may be is time flux? Space-time is very feasible to imagine being completely empty of physical objects but itself being in motion. There simply nothing to move in that environment but when matter forms, it is starting to move along caught by the flux and if it moves slower than 'time flux', it is becoming 'inertial mass', assuming 'time' flux moves at the speed of light.






there)



edit on 25-2-2017 by greenreflections because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-2-2017 by greenreflections because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: crowdedskies


For this to be true you would have to believe neither
Space nor time could be altered... Or that space is fixed...
There is time just as space but your perception of time can be altered by your movement through space or by moving space itself...
Space and time or space time are all the same thing they are reflections of one another...



I'd say more as two 'gears'. They are connected in 'gear' dependency may be?

Life might be happening right on the event horizon, place where 'now' is happening?
edit on 25-2-2017 by greenreflections because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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The fly in the ointment of our current undertsanding of spacetime is quantum entanglement which apparently doesn't recognize any barriers in space or time here. So its possible our reality is an illussion (aka projection) that emerges from quantum entanglement or at the very least, quantum entanglement exists both within and outside of the illussion.



posted on Mar, 2 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Inc_9x
a reply to: frenchfries

I believe Einstein was attending a funeral once and said something along the lines of "People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion"





made me think anticipating the future analysing the past living the present, have the common theme of cause and effect, labels of future past and present shadow that 100% sure thing cause and effect



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