“Crimea was always Russian!” France’s Marine Le Pen schools CNN

a reply to: Flavian
"Perzactly", as Charlie Drake would have said.

a reply to: LuXTeN


Typical reaction when confronted with actual facts, is for the opposition to get hostile.

Kudos to Marine for maintaining her bearing as well as she did!

Star and flag

a reply to: Nikola014

originally posted by: Nikola014
Russia interferes in numerous democratic elections all across Europe?

What the hell?

That is plane wrong. Investigations of our intelservices that were just released showed that there is no evidence for that claim. Reported by several big media in Germany (NDR, WDR and Süddeutsche Zeitung to name a few).

If there would have been the slightest hint at any interference it would have been highlighted for sure...

originally posted by: Nikola014
CNN should be banned and/or shut down. Bloody fakes news.

Nope. That's also wrong in every way - just on the other side of the scale.


On Topic:
The fact that the people of Crimea have much stronger historical/cultural ties to Russia than their western-european neighbours was argued by lots of historians, journalists and even politicians from right to left, but it didn't fit the pretext the Nulands/McCains & Co. needed for their eastward expansion-plans.

a reply to: LuXTeN

Can you not understand that it is not arguing semantics? You have posted this in the History forum. If posted in the Mud Pit or one of the other forums, fine but the point of the History forum is.........history.

And it is completely historically inaccurate to state that the Crimea has always belonged to Russia. Quite simply, Russia has had no influence in the Crimea for historically far longer than Russia has actually existed for.

That is nothing to do with the current situation, just the HISTORICAL situation.

originally posted by: LuXTeN
What you're doing is arguing the semantics....The People Voted Democratically!

What I am doing is getting the history straight, which is an important thing to do in its own right. Can't you understand that? This is the History forum, after all.
Democratic votes do not control the facts of what has happened in history, and it is factually the case that Crimea has not "always" belonged to Russia.
I am not trying to draw any political conclusions out of that fact, so the political arguments are not relevant to my point.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: LuXTeN
What you're doing is arguing the semantics....The People Voted Democratically!

What I am doing is getting the history straight, which is an important thing to do in its own right. Can't you understand that? This is the History forum, after all.
Democratic votes do not control the facts of what has happened in history, and it is factually the case that Crimea has not "always" belonged to Russia.
I am not trying to draw any political conclusions out of that fact, so the political arguments are not relevant to my point.

I was wrong

It's going to be so good when she wins the French election. Literally a day that will be remembered in history as one of the greatest elections.

The EU will be dead. That will be it's killing blow. The Establishment will have been defeated.

Theresa May has stated numerous times she is willing to work with our non-enemy Russia. I hope we can work out some Anglo-French-Russian agreements.

originally posted by: paraphi
Crimea belonged to Ukraine, regardless of the history. That was the international recognition. Russia was a belligerent who has acted to destabilise Ukraine and annex Crimea. Only punitive EU sanctions has curtailed further overt Russian interference.

The fact that Le Pen's Font national part party is dependent of foreign (Russian) bank loans to support her 2017 campaigns may be the real cause of her outspoken views. This Russian support is evidenced fact.

Russia was responsible for the CIA parliamentary coup in 2014? The same one that overthrew the democratically elected, largely Pro-Russian Government?

Seems like that is totally against their interests.

originally posted by: brutus61
So you deliberately posted in the "history" forum so you could rebut all arguments by using history as a defense. The article in reference that you used in your post is not referring to something that happened 300 years ago. I will request the mods place this in the proper forum.

No, the OP posted in the "History" forum. I am not the OP, and I am not responsible for the opening post which includes that article.
In fact the OP has been making the same objection as you, that my historical point is clashing with the intended political agenda of the opening post.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: LuXTeN
What you're doing is arguing the semantics....The People Voted Democratically!

What I am doing is getting the history straight, which is an important thing to do in its own right. Can't you understand that? This is the History forum, after all.
Democratic votes do not control the facts of what has happened in history, and it is factually the case that Crimea has not "always" belonged to Russia.
I am not trying to draw any political conclusions out of that fact, so the political arguments are not relevant to my point.

I understand where you're coming from BUT

democratic decisions that dictate outcomes in countries are in fact part of history
Just as every election is hostory
Just as the Brexit will be recorded as history of Britain

Look at Roman history and indeed all the history of all cultures , their POLITICS are a HUGE aspect of what we know about them and how they operated

You can't exclude the body politic from history

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I agree and Thank you

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
democratic decisions that dictate outcomes in countries are in fact part of history

Yes, but they don't affect the history that has already happened.
If Miss Le Pen had not said "always", her point would have been reasonable.

a reply to: Ohanka

Things are finally looking up, good times ahead to look forward to instead of endless war.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Why not pick apart the fact that Amanpour was out right lying about Crimea? There's a good start.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
democratic decisions that dictate outcomes in countries are in fact part of history

Yes, but they don't affect the history that has already happened.
If Miss Le Pen had not said "always", her point would have been reasonable.

I see what you're trying to say , but I feel like your splitting hairs here on a fairly minute part of her overall explanation.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
In a discussion of history, getting as close to the truth as possible is good for its own sake.
In one of my old vacation jobs, one of my customers was a humourist who would look at the change I gave him and observe "Well, it's right- but only just." The difference between the right change and the wrong change was only half a penny, so that could have been called "hair-splitting".

originally posted by: LuXTeN
a reply to: DISRAELI

Why not pick apart the fact that Amanpour was out right lying about Crimea? There's a good start.

Because, historically, she was not lying.

Politically about the current situation she was certainly lying.

But not historically - and this is the history forum.

a reply to: LuXTeN
I wasn't trying to get involved in the rights and wrongs of the political argument.
I was just picking up on an historical point.

a reply to: Flavian

Yes, and we all know just how lying and conniving the MSM is don't we. They're very good at twisting the Truth to make them look good and everyone else bad.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes and we've both clarified our position on that.

Thank you