POLITICS: Australian P.M. labels 'Old Europe' Irrational.

During a heated exchange, Australian P.M. John Howard has lashed out at certain European Union members, at the current meeting in Davos. P.M. John Howard was quick to defend George W. Bush's policy on Iraq, whilst also stating his opposition to E.U. wheat export subsidies.



Well, i think it's just a case of 'you scratch my back...'
It's called trying to be a bully.

Related News Links:
www.abc.net.au



[edit on 30-1-2005 by sanctum]

That was actually a smart stance for him to take. We do most of our trade with Asia and America and very little trade with Europe. So he gets points with Bush and various developing nations in Asia without bad feelings in Europe being a problem because we hardly trade with them. Plus he couldn't really agree the invasion of Iraq was the wrong thing to do because he was part of it and it isn't in his nature to admit he is wrong... even if no one else besides Bush, Blair and a few other leaders agree with him. The damage is already done there and chaging his mind about Iraq would only make him look like a flip flopper.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by Trent]

Plus he couldn't really agree the invasion of Iraq was the wrong thing to do because he was part of it and it isn't in his nature to admit he is wrong... even if no one else besides Bush, Blair and a few other leaders agree with him.

Few agreed with Howard and Bush, yet they were both re-elected...That's strange.

At the same time, liberals leaders in Canada, Germany, and France are all losing ground.

Well, i think it's just a case of 'you scratch my back...'
It's called trying to be a bully.

Or maybe he just really believes Iraq was a good thing, and is sick of leaders who have enough trouble back in their own countries, like Chirac, saying it was a mistake.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
At the same time, liberals leaders in Canada, Germany, and France are all losing ground.

At least for Germany that comment is wrong.

It's wrong for Germany, huh?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Schroeder has been losing ground fast. People are not happy with their government in Germany, or France. Their economies keep getting worse. They already had great unemployment, and its only getting worse.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
At the same time, liberals leaders in Canada, Germany, and France are all losing ground.

Your statement is highly misleading. Technically the Liberals in Canada did lose support in the last election, but not for any reason that has anything to do with Iraq, or more importantly the USA aka Centre of the Universe.

The Conservatives will never form a majority government in this country, unless they stop being so darn scary. One of those reasons is blind support of the US administration.

You're right, it's not Iraq. Most Canadians, Frenchmen, and Germans don't agree with the war. At the same time, the liberal governments have still bee doing worse then the conservative. Their utopian beliefs, and welfare economics are failing.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
It's wrong for Germany, huh?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Schroeder has been losing ground fast. People are not happy with their government in Germany, or France. Their economies keep getting worse. They already had great unemployment, and its only getting worse.

Read what it says please..... people are not happy with their government in those countries.... Nothing strange about that, a percentage of people are not happy in the US also, but the majority agree with president Bush whether you want to admit it or not.

As for the Liberal party in particular, the reason they did poorly is because Chretien & Co. got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. But even after Adscam, they still won the most seats of any party, because they were the least repulsive to the majority of Canadians.

I think what very few Americans realize is that our Conservatives, to you, would be left-wing. All the mainstream parties are far more left than the US's Democrats.

And no, our system isn't perfect. But to Canadians it is important to provide a social safety net to our less-fortunate citizens, and anyone who runs on a platform of disabling these programs will never live inside of 24 Sussex Drive.

Read what it says please..... people are not happy with their government in those countries.... Nothing strange about that, a percentage of people are not happy in the US also, but the majority agree with president Bush whether you want to admit it or not.

It shows growing unpopularity, while Bush, like it or not, has gained popularity. The GOP has gained strength in the past four years, while the liberal parties in Germany have lost it.

And no, our system isn't perfect. But to Canadians it is important to provide a social safety net to our less-fortunate citizens, and anyone who runs on a platform of disabling these programs will never live inside of 24 Sussex Drive

From what I understand, you came very close to getting just that.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
From what I understand, you came very close to getting just that.

Our minority government is the best thing to hapen to our country in years. That's when we get our most socialist programs, like Universal Health Care.

Until our Constitution is amended to change the distribution of seats, and eliminates the special provisions for Quebec representation, that's not going to happen. And to even try to change that would be political suicide for a PM.

If the Conservatives ever want to form a majority goernment in Canada they will have to make some sweeping policy changes.

Then why did they almost win the last election?

Because of the Adscam or the Sponsorship scandal, in which the Liberals were caught giving money to their friends for no work. Then the Conservatives opened their mouths, and summarily destroyed any chance they had of overtaking the Liberals.

In the end, more Canadians preferred a government that was corrupt, to one that wanted to dismantle the things we believe make us Canadian. The lesser of the two evils, as it were.

Sounds like you're just making excuses to me. How do you explain what's going on in France, and Germany? Just luck there, too?

I guess only the next set of elections will tell...

Nope, not making excuses, just giving you the facts. The conservatives were projected to win, and then they opened their mouths. If you choose to ignore the facts, that's your problem not mine.

As for Germany and France, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer for that. I'm not as familiar with their internal politics as I am with my own country's.

And yes, the next set of elections should be very interesting.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
the liberal governments have still bee doing worse then the conservative. Their utopian beliefs, and welfare economics are failing.

Economies everywhere are failing - especially in the USA. IMO - it looks like part of the corporate takeover plan...

Just a brief atsnn history:

US: Debt to hit $8.2 trillion on Monday
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Decline of the U.S. Dollar
www.abovetopsecret.com...

IMF Warns of "Traumatic Situation" Re US Dollar
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dollar Hits New Low Against Euro, Trend Likely to continue
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Shrinking US Dollar
www.abovetopsecret.com...

.

The US has a shrinking unemployment which is already lower then the average in Europe by a ratio of about 2:1. America sees 4% economic growth, more than really any major economic power in Europe. America's debt is lower then most of Europe's. Europe as a whole has a larger debt than America.

As for the falling dollar, it benefits America for the time being, and directly hurts Europe and China.

Nope, not making excuses, just giving you the facts. The conservatives were projected to win, and then they opened their mouths. If you choose to ignore the facts, that's your problem not mine.

As for Germany and France, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer for that. I'm not as familiar with their internal politics as I am with my own country's.

And yes, the next set of elections should be very interesting.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense. What, were the conservatives all quiet until just before the election, and then they first put out their agenda and scared people (yet still came extremely close)? That's dumb.

You have nothing backing up your claims. What you're talking about couldn't even be verified with any real facts.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
It's wrong for Germany, huh?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Schroeder has been losing ground fast. People are not happy with their government in Germany, or France. Their economies keep getting worse. They already had great unemployment, and its only getting worse.

Oh, how I love people who try to talk about things they don't know about.
Basically we have to big parties here in Germany: SPD (ruling) and CDU (opposition)

While people aren't satisified with the SPD and their popularity went down since several years, it went up again after some scandals on part of the CDU.

I would call growing popularity for the ruling party during the last year somehow different than "loosing ground". But that's when you are just citing english newspapers without having made up your own mind.
You won't see me talking about British inner politics - sometimes it's better to stay low on things you don't know. Take that advice. Thanks.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by shoo]

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
What, were the conservatives all quiet until just before the election, and then they first put out their agenda and scared people (yet still came extremely close)? That's dumb.

Yep, that's what I'm saying. The best way to describe Canadian politics would be a three-ring circus. Here's an excerpt from an article that describes some of the issues they should have left alone:

www.ctv.ca..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Harper raises possibility of stepping down
Harper told reporters he believed his campaign was hindered by being "constantly bombarded" with accusations of a hidden agenda as he tried to put a moderate face on his party.

However, some of the veteran MPs from the party's Reform and Alliance incarnations made some controversial pronouncements on bilingualism, gay rights, abortion, the death penalty and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Harper wouldn't address reporters' questions on whether his own candidates helped the Liberals paint the party as intolerant.

On Monday night, Harper admitted he was disappointed by his party unexpectedly poor showing in the day's election. The party won 99 seats countrywide -- much less the 115 to 119 seats many polls projected last week.

The conservatives would have done much better had they been able to leash some of the more extreme candidates. A lot of people really didn't want to vote Liberal, but just couldn't support the Conservatives after the comments made.

Here's another source for you:

Traditional Tories consider other parties

Jim is among a group of "Red" Tories who have stepped away from the new Conservative Party. Probably the most well-known, and most vocal, is former PC leader Joe Clark, who left the party shortly after the merger to sit as an independent.

In an appearance on CTV's Question Period at the end of April, Clark was pressed about who he was going to vote for in the next election. "I would prefer to go with the devil we know," said Clark, explaining that he is "extremely worried" by Harper's ideological views.

"I don't believe that the Harper party can get away with the masquerade that it is the Progressive Conservative party that was broad enough to attract support from a wide cross-section of Canadians."

The Conservatives just can't attract enough support for their policies in Canada, unless they change them. Plus Quebec gets about 1/4 (or lots anyways, I can't remember the actual number) of the seats, and it's a pretty hard sell there, as Quebec is quite liberal.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by Duzey]