The Frog in the Boiling Pot of Water.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: Edumakated

You need to take a basic business course. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go google average business profit margins and then come back when you have a clue. Here is a hint, insurance companies have some of the lowest profit margins of any business. They are in single digits. Around 5%

Only investments yielding 30% are the best performing hedge funds and even they cant do it indefinitely. This is why they make so much money as it is damn near impossible to get those kinds of returns.

While he is very wrong for a number of other reasons, I think that here he's referring to the classic 30% margin for goods. Buy something for 100, sell it for 130. His mistake is (i) thinking that the 30% is profit, and (ii) thinking that the same % applies in the same way in this scenario.

That is the profit ratio I was referring to. However I disagree that only materials are included in that number. I manage resteraunts and there all pricing is figured in a 1/3 for materials, 1/3 is labor and expenses and the last third is your profit. There are things that provide far better profit margins than that. Asprin for one only take a dime to produce what they sell for 3$.


Obama care added an 80/20 clause to insurance companies. Meaning that the insurance companies can only make 20% of their premiums in profits. The 80% must be used paying medical bills or be refunded to the customer.

I know insurance companies normal profit margins is higher than the 20%, because if not there would be no need for the 80/20 rule.

I have gotten refund checks from Humana all 3 years of Obamacare care. Meaning they are at least meeting the 80/20 rule.

Pure Investments don't reach 30% a lot of time because your not actually running a buisness, you are getting a cut.

90% chance the buisness whoever invested in does work on at least a 30% profit margins fir their investment.

With our present/past system we are cycling nearly every medical dollar spent through a for profit middleman , WHO IS NOT ACTUALY PREFORMING A MEDICAL FUNCTION?!?!

That is inherently inefficient and exactly why every other country on the planet has gotten rid of insurance companies.

It is also the same reason me dont privatize police , fire and other emergency services. Would you really want to live in a country where the fire dept didn't show up if you missed that months payment?? Or the police wouldn't come stop you r wife being assaulted....

There is no functional difference between those and your kid having cancer and you can't pay your premiums.

There are only 2 choices....

Trust the government to do it, who is at least beholden to the people at election time.

Or

Trust big buisness corporations to do it who are beholden only to the bottom line.

Play the financial shell game with inessential services, not basic needs for survival.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: MrSensible
a reply to: Zerodoublehero
But right now someone under the ACA is getting a cancer treatment they would have otherwise been denied. That person would've been shown the door, and on the other side of that door would be a coffin. And that person could have been you. And we need to keep that at all costs..

Why?

Sometimes life sucks. Why should I let something that makes my (or a loved one's) life suck, negatively impact millions of other people?

Sounds like a fairly selfish thing to do.

Because of the ratio to life suckAge.

Their life sucks, so some little kid dies of cancer, that might have been saved.

Your life sucks , you didn't get to up grade to a new vehicle this year..

Medical issues are not very different from fire, police and such. Both are kinda mandatory.

Plus I really think your wrong in assuming that premiums are gonna go back down.

There is no real competition with these massive "to big to fail" insurance companies. You can't start a mom and pop insurance co..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


The individual mandate is no more "wrong" than any other taxes that effect the country as a whole..police, fire dept, army, welfare, and any other taxed based government service , is an individual mandate.

But of course all of these taxes are fundamentally wrong unless you can realistically refuse to pay them. Which is obviously not an option. They are not automatically right just because they work. As I have said you could lower crime through all kinds of sledgehammer laws. It would work. And few people would argue that we don't have the right to live in a low crime society. But there are some things that push the boundaries to places they shouldn't go.

Well, for example, unemployed drug addicts who choose to give birth six times are probably massively increasing crime (among many other problems) but you probably would not agree with fining them for reproducing, huh? Why not? They are choosing to be socially irresponsible. They're actively contributing to the perpetuation of just about every social problem we have a name for but their right to choose is more important than all of that, right?

Anyway, a tax that was passed without your consent and deemed to be proper simply because you can't refuse is basically the same thing as slavery.


Passing a law that requires everyone to maintain a certain weight or be fined is also no more wrong than the individual mandate. Of course, this could obviously go on forever until you can't fart without being fined.

So anyway. Like I said. If you have no right to choose, you have no right to choose. Period. Any law the government sees fit to pass is legal because they don't have to care about your wishes or your right to choose.

I disagree as well about having the "right to the wrong insurance"

Well, I don't have the clout to pass a law that requires you to agree with me or pay a "tax" so I guess I'll just have to let you disagree.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: MrSensible

You dont get it though. The middle class and small businesses are getting #ed. I cant afford insurance so i don't have it. I make to much to get subsidies but dont make enough to afford it. And on top of that i get fined at the end of the year for not having the insurance i cant afford.

Yes and folks forget that the main point of the AHCA was not to have these zones of make to much but still cant afford. So suddenly a person like you is out of insurance and that capacity has been transferred to some one.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

Thing is, the travesty that Obamacare turned into WAS NOT the Obamacare that Obama initially tried to pass. He tried to pass one that would actually have benefited ALL Americans and NOT put the money in the hands of corporate interests but the Republicans blocked it and FORCED him to water it down then agreed to the version you see today.

Obama tried to give you a healthcare system that worked and was fair for all. Republicans butchered it and they should be solely to blame for the travesty that it became.

You're right that Obamacare is not what Obama promised. Which is why he shouldn't have signed it into law. Period. If you're going to make promises, you should keep them or not make the situation worse.

And I do not believe the Republicans forced him to do anything. What he promised is impossible and he knew it. The man went to college. He had to have known that money has to come from somewhere.

This dirtbag knew damn well there was no way to have universal healthcare with no individual mandate and no tax increases and yet that is exactly what he promised. And a lot of the idiots who voted for him believed him. He knew he was lying and he knew the left would cover for him. No sympathy and I'm not going to blame the Republicans for his blatant lies.

The closest thing we have to accountability is making the people who voted for him pay for their support. If that means you lose your health insurance (that you extorted from the taxpayers) 8 years later, so be it. This won't happen. But it probably should.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

Thing is, the travesty that Obamacare turned into WAS NOT the Obamacare that Obama initially tried to pass. He tried to pass one that would actually have benefited ALL Americans and NOT put the money in the hands of corporate interests but the Republicans blocked it and FORCED him to water it down then agreed to the version you see today.

Obama tried to give you a healthcare system that worked and was fair for all. Republicans butchered it and they should be solely to blame for the travesty that it became.

Where do you get information like this? You certainly were not there or really paying attention at the time. The Republicans were never in the game in any way shape or form. When I read things like you have posted I see a hack at work with disinfo to sway the dumb. Or someone that has been lied to.

HEY ah...JOSH is it?
HE isn't a layer HE WOULDN'T HAVE traits like that.
He MAKES cash in BUSINESS ,DEALS ,he hires TOP talent not some RNC hack because he isn't going to even PLAY like those people.
ATTEMPTING to read him politically is as stupid as listening to his campaign speeches as GOSPEL.
WE haven't time for domestic CRAP from the SJWs right now. we'll HIRE someone to listen to your rants...QUESTIONS ,I mean...

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


The individual mandate is no more "wrong" than any other taxes that effect the country as a whole..police, fire dept, army, welfare, and any other taxed based government service , is an individual mandate.

But of course all of these taxes are fundamentally wrong unless you can realistically refuse to pay them. Which is obviously not an option. They are not automatically right just because they work. As I have said you could lower crime through all kinds of sledgehammer laws. It would work. And few people would argue that we don't have the right to live in a low crime society. But there are some things that push the boundaries to places they shouldn't go.

Well, for example, unemployed drug addicts who choose to give birth six times are probably massively increasing crime (among many other problems) but you probably would not agree with fining them for reproducing, huh? Why not? They are choosing to be socially irresponsible. They're actively contributing to the perpetuation of just about every social problem we have a name for but their right to choose is more important than all of that, right?

Anyway, a tax that was passed without your consent and deemed to be proper simply because you can't refuse is basically the same thing as slavery.


Passing a law that requires everyone to maintain a certain weight or be fined is also no more wrong than the individual mandate. Of course, this could obviously go on forever until you can't fart without being fined.

So anyway. Like I said. If you have no right to choose, you have no right to choose. Period. Any law the government sees fit to pass is legal because they don't have to care about your wishes or your right to choose.

I disagree as well about having the "right to the wrong insurance"

Well, I don't have the clout to pass a law that requires you to agree with me or pay a "tax" so I guess I'll just have to let you disagree.

Offering needed services on a nonprofit basis is not slavery. It's what every single government in history has done. All of them..forever.

All would jail you for not paying taxes, most would execute you and just take it.

It's not our money on an individual basis and It's not real anyway. It is the governments. Just like all ownership is reliant on the government enforcing your "right to own it."

If you take the gov away, all cash is worthless and all property is owned by your local warlord.

All societies have worked on a 60% socialist (public owned) and a 40% private owned bent. The government already pays for the entire inferstructure, health care is just one more facet.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
HEY ah...JOSH is it?
HE isn't a layer HE WOULDN'T HAVE traits like that.
He MAKES cash in BUSINESS ,DEALS ,he hires TOP talent not some RNC hack because he isn't going to even PLAY like those people.
ATTEMPTING to read him politically is as stupid as listening to his campaign speeches as GOSPEL.
WE haven't time for domestic CRAP from the SJWs right now. we'll HIRE someone to listen to your rants...QUESTIONS ,I mean...

Trumps every appointment has been ultra rightwing partisan hacks, that Trump will have to babysit to stop from attempting to push their own agendas.

He hasn't picked an in the middle "best guy for the job " yet.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

Thing is, the travesty that Obamacare turned into WAS NOT the Obamacare that Obama initially tried to pass. He tried to pass one that would actually have benefited ALL Americans and NOT put the money in the hands of corporate interests but the Republicans blocked it and FORCED him to water it down then agreed to the version you see today.

Obama tried to give you a healthcare system that worked and was fair for all. Republicans butchered it and they should be solely to blame for the travesty that it became.

Where do you get information like this? You certainly were not there or really paying attention at the time. The Republicans were never in the game in any way shape or form. When I read things like you have posted I see a hack at work with disinfo to sway the dumb. Or someone that has been lied to.

The GOP was absolutely in the game. The dems wanted a single payer option. The GOP said that was socialism and "death panels " and insisted the insurance companies were cut in.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

YOU think generals and OFFICERS are hacks as LEADERS?
I question your simplistic logic in the EXTREME.

originally posted by: Logarock

Where do you get information like this? You certainly were not there or really paying attention at the time. The Republicans were never in the game in any way shape or form. When I read things like you have posted I see a hack at work with disinfo to sway the dumb. Or someone that has been lied to.

Documentaries. Many of them. Even watched one last night called "Frontline: Divided States of America" which accurately, and scarily, explained what happened that led to Trump going right back to 2008. It included a large section on Obamacare and yes, it occurred pretty much the way I summarised.

I aim to educate myself, using MANY sources, not just the narrow viewpoint that many people settle for.

a reply to: Kryties

US news is PROPAGANDIZED.
It's INCREDIBLY BIAS, public broadcasting CHRIST it's like RADIO Moscow now.
Socialist LITE
mediamatters.org...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kryties

US news is PROPAGANDIZED.

Theres a big difference between most "news" and documentaries.

It's INCREDIBLY BIAS, public broadcasting CHRIST it's like RADIO Moscow now.
Socialist LITE
mediamatters.org...

It's not the only documentary I've watched on the subject. I've watched hundreds, from MANY different sources. That's why I used the plural of "documentaries" in that post.

a reply to: Kryties

But if point of FACT you only uplifted that one.
CLEARLY a bias source, we eschew now.
New paradigm has arrived.
CLEAN UP is ON the way.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kryties

But if point of FACT you only uplifted that one.
CLEARLY a bias source, we eschew now.
New paradigm has arrived.
CLEAN UP is ON the way.

I'll list off the hundreds I've watched if you want, you can go through them one by one. It'll take a while though.

a reply to: Kryties

Hardly the point now IS it?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kryties

Hardly the point now IS it?

Kind of is. You're saying that the source of the doco I named is biased, and I'm saying I've watched hundreds from many different sources. All this in response to someone asking me where I got my information from.

How is it not the point?

a reply to: Kryties

Because though mentioning MORE, you chose THAT ONE for your statement.
I corrected YOU based on what YOU put out.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kryties

Because though mentioning MORE, you chose THAT ONE for your statement.
I corrected YOU based on what YOU put out.

I chose THAT ONE because it was the most recent one I watched.