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No value but inherent value a lesson from toys

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posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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Here is a novelty first introduced entirely by accident to me by my wife, you see, she loves junk!

Well its junk to me but to her its not. Ok she loves little toys. To her the toys are real and she attaches real emotions to them. She says things like 'ag shame, how can the little pony, lego man, troll, whatever be alone?' And she will only feel good when she's put it with another toy because then its 'not alone.'

You and me know its a dead piece of plastic but to her its more.

(She's not insane and knows she has this quirk. She knows its not alive but I think she wants it to be and therefore even if only a little, in her reality, it is.)

We often laugh at this little quirk of hers but it got me thinking.

Here's dead plastic but to her its something more and because she has a certain amount of power over her life these things really have real value. She will not let me throw them away because she wants to protect because she loves them. To her the emotions she invests in them they are real and worthwhile. So what I'm saying is lifeless, worthless things become something more because somebody more powerful takes a personal interest.

The value those toys now have becomes directly related to the value she places in them. Worthless, lifeless toys can become very meaningful and have a meaning all to themselves. You can't tell my wife they are worthless junk, believe me I have tried. She will defend them till her dying breath but what she's really defending isn't the junk its her emotional investment in the junk.

The only reason humans have any value is because God has invested His emotions in us. That is how worthless, useless lumps of clay have come to have any life and love.

We are worthless without God but don't worry we are meaningful to Him and He would die to defend the emotional investment He has in us.

This is how worthless, dead, powerless, insignificant humans have life because God said so.

Isn't it great to know you are special because of who you are loved by? Don't disregard God, rather seek Him and find Him.

Ask my wife, she will tell you.

(If one of her little trolls seeked her and found her she would go nuts!)

So are we valuable on our own or do we have inherent value because God loves us? What says you?




posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: HD3DSURROUNDSOUND

do you both have children?

And no we have no inherent value. that is why it says,

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
We are loved of God but not because we have any value but because of who he is. Or he wouldn't have had to send his son to die for us.


edit on 12-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: HD3DSURROUNDSOUND

Let me try to relate to what your getting at.
Satans Goal was to make Adam and Eve junk to God. They were dead useless, at least that is how Satan thought God would view his creation after they broke his command. However Satan did not account for Gods free will, to do what you wife has done and still provide value and a way for this junk to thrive, despite the logical facts that they are dead.

Something that is dead can not know that it is valued or appreciate or that it is cared for.
That's why Christ came to take away our deadness. so that we can be alive in Christ and see what He sees. See what he values, see what plans he has for us. We rejoice not because we have to, we praise God because we once were lost and now found we have a way now to establish a relationship with the one who sees us a valuable.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn




We are loved of God but not because we have any value but because of who he is. Or he wouldn't have had to send his son to die for us.


If you're talking about the Demiurge Jehovah of course it doesn't value you.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: HD3DSURROUNDSOUND




We are worthless without God


Says you - life has intrinsic value. Life is sacred. Taken to its logical conclusion your argument would allow for bible thumpers to murder non believers. Did Jesus rely on a book to show love? All you have are books created by a failing Roman Empire which transformed into Pauline Christianity. Lets not start talking about original sin....



She will not let me throw them away because she wants to protect because she loves them. To her the emotions she invests in them they are real and worthwhile. So what I'm saying is lifeless, worthless things become something


Why would you want to throw something away that your wife loves? Are you sure you know the meaning of love in a marriage?



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn




And no we have no inherent value


Well god did change its mind and sent your saviour to die - otherwise it would have been pointless if there was no inherent value



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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First off i am a christian and could never undo that. That being said your analogy to the toys seems simple and representative and to the narrow minded may answer many of their questions of who why and what we are. To be cynical can you explain to me what would happen if your wife's toys turned on each other and hacked each other to bits. Or if they developed a hierarchy based on whom is more loved by your wife and committed those toys that were secondary to her love as slaves are less of a toy. Would your wife allow one toy to have a weapon that could potentially destroy all the other toys?

If your wife's toys were dependent on batteries would those that starve for food be ignored ?

Questions to ponder i guess, but wouldn't life be so grand if it had a simplistic answer as that.
I can see the free will answer coming and i would like to respond with does an unborn child, Retard, or animal have free will?



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

No actually it wouldn't because we are loved and we realize that because we are no longer dead through Him. We realize the value and sacredness life has.

Those who don't realize this, who are still dead becaue they have not found Him don't always see this value. To them life is not always sacred.

Why do you think so few Christians stand up to defend abortion?



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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i resent being compared to a piece of plastic that is manufactured for the purpose of being traded for money and eventually discarded and forgotten. this approach to people is uncomfortably reminiscent of slavery and im sure we all remember how poorly that went.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 04:48 AM
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originally posted by: HD3DSURROUNDSOUND
The value those toys now have becomes directly related to the value she places in them. Worthless, lifeless toys can become very meaningful and have a meaning all to themselves. You can't tell my wife they are worthless junk, believe me I have tried. She will defend them till her dying breath but what she's really defending isn't the junk its her emotional investment in the junk.

the Reality is that ALL 'value', ALL 'meaning', exists in the thoughts of the beholder!
There is no 'intrinsic' value to anything!
A diamond is just a carbon crystal!
Someone lusting after it because they imagine 'value' makes it valuable, to them!


The only reason humans have any value is because God has invested His emotions in us.

And now you are just being weird and appear to host mind numbing 'beliefs'.
As I said, not anything has inherent value.
And God's emotions are projection if I ever heard it!
YOUR 'emotions' are God's emotions!
Your 'thoughts' and 'feelings' are God's thoughts and feelings!
Your eye is God's Eye!

"God cannot know himself without me." - Meister Eckhart

"The eye by which I see God is the same as the eye by which God sees me. My eye and God's eye are one and the same." - Meister Eckhart

"All things are simply God to thee who seest only God in all things. Like one who looks long at the sun, he encounters the sun in whatever he afterwards looks at. If this is lacking, this looking for and seeing God in all and sundry, then thou lackest this birth." - Meister Eckhart

"What a man loves, he is. If he loves a stone he is that stone, if he loves a person he is that person, if he loves God - nay, I durst not say more; were I to say, he is God, he might stone me. I do but teach you the scriptures." - Meister Eckhart


So are we valuable on our own or do we have inherent value because God loves us? What says you?

You are ignorantly parroting some Sunday school lesson (or your 'beliefs'), and it is ignorance (not experience/Knowledge).
There is no inherent value!
If God is Love, and God is somehow different than you and I, then God 'Loves' ALL equally, thus transcendent unconditional Love.
Thus all have your 'value', and no one does!

Unconditional Love doesn't have anything to do with 'valuing'!
That is ego/thought, quite the opposite.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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it seems to me that so many people desperately want to be loved by a superior being transcendent of human nature and human psychology because they live in a world full of unloving human nature and cruel human psychology. which makes it somewhat peculiar that this superior transcendental being is described in terms of human emotions. how does such a humanesque figure circumvent the foibles of human nature, the foibles that make it necessary to seek out an inhuman guardian? if i were to answer my own question, i would say that it doesnt. if anything it simply twists these foibles to present a more righteous image in much the way hitler twisted his devious schemes to appear heroic and noble. that leads me to two more fascinating questions: how does one disguise devilry as saintly works? and how does one keep the adoring masses from recognizing that this process is taking place? or to put it another way, how do you convince your toys that being a toy is in their best interest when you yourself are not a toy? or...are you?

the plot thickens!



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

it could be that people are seeing the inherent wickedness and debauchery in all men and thereby are seeking someone who is holy and righteous and there is only One Jesus Christ. So they look to see him in the mundane and simple an not is the complex and irrational.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I did that born again stuff in the 70s left and became a pagan. Its all good, there is no death. I suspected there was a demiurge/archon prior to studying qabbala or paganism. The icing on the cake was the advent of the Net. I could actually see how religions and gods started through the comfort of my chair. We were loved and are loved because all of the Universe is Creation. Love is the common denominator. We never were dead - its a control construct and I understand some people need that.

I just dont understand why someone who dearly love their wife would even contemplate throwing out an item that in their eyes isn't "real". Obviously hasn't understood the agape bit of Christ. His wife is obviously not hurting anyone.

I have found you to be one of the nicer Christians on ATS and abortion is a hot topic that I dont wish to get into; ethics/morality/when consciousness enters/viabilty/pain...too dark for me.



So are we valuable on our own or do we have inherent value because God loves us


We assign value through cultural heritage...but the fundamental value in existing is to experience life. Its as simple as that.



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