Viewing the world without bias and ego

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

However we must realize that much of the hatred is artificial and a result of propaganda,

Affirming that breaks down the wall of nation states in every ones mind so that we can find the common cause to focus on . We all get the political speeches of open and transparent and maintaining the law but as George Webb has documented in his where is Eric Braverman series its much much more complicated and sinister then we can imagine .What chance do we have to get our good guy in the place of power when tptb will either turn them or destroy them .

Thinking that Trump's draining the swamp to put the US back on track is much like the Change and yes we can meme of Obama .We notice that MSM has caught a cold with the Email exposures but they carry on with the same kind of rhetoric .We are up against a very well connected ,very powerful group that will keep on keeping on ,and using what ever means they can to get what they ultimately want .

There are subjects that come up on the board that really tugs at my core values ,but I know to try and engage in them is usless other then to give my rant and acknowledge that its a personal choice I make . No sane thinking person would agree with what Webb is uncovering but low and behold there is a army of people engaged in it both knowing and unknowingly .

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Bluesma

But one thing they made clear to me is that they do not see themselves as our buddies, and do not aspire to be. (speaking of relations between our countries, not individuals).

They do see us a rivals, and it is deeply ingrained, and from their point of view, there is a lot to critisize us for and more than enough reason to want to see us fall as a world power.

I don't doubt what you say, it's the same type of ingrained disposition the U.S. population has against Russia. However we must realize that much of the hatred is artificial and a result of propaganda, and not all Russians feel the way you describe. There is always a large number of people who don't play into the hate game, on both sides. I couldn't write a thread like this without being that sort of neutral person. I know of many awesome Russian people and I judge them as individuals.

We must also remember that the government isn't the same thing as the people. I would argue a large number of U.S. citizens don't trust their government and the same thing would apply to Russians. A lot of the time the hatred is directed towards our governments, not the actual people of the nation. And again if we try to see it from the perspective of Russia, they have many reasons not to like the U.S., and vice versa. Hatred doesn't usually just spring out of thin air, something causes it.

I agree (which is why I specified "countries , not individuals".
The fact is, when it comes to international relations (and their risks)
it is the government of those countries that is relevant. I love my russian friend, and we get along great! But we both know our motherlands are not on good terms, and won't be anytime soon.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Oh okay, I agree.

Yeah philosophy rocks on ATS lol

Well why dont you write up a philosophy thread and blow us all away with your stunning intellect and insight?

Bitch and moan about content you when you can refer back to your own and say "this is how it should be done".
A quick glance at your profile shows you have authored exactly 0 zero threads in this forum.

Put up or shut up I say

Here's a philosophical/psychological concept to consider...

pathological normality, is an excessive desire to adapt oneself to a group, even if it is sect-like, exaggerated militarism, a follow-the-leader attitude, or the compulsive desire to give in to general opinion to belong no matter the cost.

So what happens if biasing by group ends... I noticed in your OP you used "We" a lot. Pretty sure bacteria and other viruses that cling together as a group "feel" the same way... bias against any and everything in their way against completely dominating and consuming in their spread and flourishing...

Of course humanity wants to call their endeavors of doing so higher order and advancement; and for the group to adhere properly in such a conformity towards that end then a baseline of normality must be a pathological one in order to operate in a continuum towards that goal...

Of course not sharing that goal on the global scale leaves many people not even knowing what the hell it is; and of course then a dysporia arises where all sorts of insecurity and questioning of motives arises, along with the paranoia that it really isn't in humanities best interest just those that stand to benefit the most from whatever those goals are.

Culture comes from the people themselves, that have grown adapted and evolved from adversity and diversity found within their local regions or habitat... it has nothing to do with the government nor the nationalist ideals it puts forth except in how the populous has had to adapt to the government as an adversity, culture was there and grows and adapts around all of what people are exposed to... governments know this; it is why whole countries firewall and block other countries and regions... so that they can contain and control the people and culture within those borders from being exposed to cultures and people outside of those borders or otherwise limit exposure to them, as other cultures can be looked upon as an invasive species or virus that does not threaten the people themselves mind you...

But the government that wishes to maintain power over the people in which they feel they have a right to control... of course; it is important for such governments to make the people feel like they want it that way, ask for it to be that way, and demand that it be that way and the way that that occurs? Is obviously through diversion and subversive activities that they do themselves to prevent humanity from coming together and erasing those borders, and of course propaganda of all sorts is also used as well as the conviencing that that's the way that the people or at least majority of them want it... that of course is achieved by making the people think that they have some sort of say in the direction things take.

The illusion of power over the government in order to maintain that power... when the governments know full well that it was, is and has always been the people that hold the power and not the government or those that work to keep up the facade that the government benefits the most.

So in essence; all people can mix and get along, and all culture can come together on many many common grounds and all work together... of course that is not in the best interest of those with the most power that wish to maintain it so instead of it being an even greater responsibility to the people? It becomes an even greater responsibility to the corruption that seeks to keep and maintain their own status quo... every government basically operates on a SNAFU.

The reason being they have contengency to maintain that power even in worst case senario situations... governments underground no matter how much unrest or disturbance takes place; so that it can impliment stratagies to get back that lost power and get back to a matter of business as per usual... of course, looking at intelligence and logistics? It is pretty easy to determine the most vulnerable countries or statehoods that do not have such contingencies and of course attacking them in order to exploit the resources and absorb them into the power over throwing it? Is what the New World Order is all about... such a thing is done by proxies though... create some destabilization in order to give an excuse to launch into such a plan, and well like the war on drugs being manufactured as an excuse to fund the entire damned thing with RICO on both sides of the proverbial fence; the war on terror is an excuse to run around on a global scale when it is just a battle of ideologies.

So as far as humanity itself goes on the global scale in that true "We" that you speak of? Nationalism and patriotism... is the enemy that keeps that from occuring, and governments all over the world exploit sentiments, rouse fear, and use propaganda to point a finger and say those people desire to threaten your way of life not enhance it... so of course, the main bias comes from the governments themselves... the actual people are not a threat to anyones way of life... unless they are so programmed with bias and propaganda on a whole to actually believe any of the rhetoric used to divide and fuel all of those agendas and of course they need cannon fodder of bodies to throw in the front lines to do it, and making sure to instill a great sense of patriotism and nationalism is the key that keeps fueling every war that has been or ever will arise...

Nationalism and patriotism is an ideology; those that think it perfect in it's methods believe it will reach, can reach, or is the ideal method or mode that not only that country but the entire world should live by... obviously very dangerous sh!t... and has been for a very very long time, even all the way back to early tribalism going out to raid others because it was easier to steal resources already available than procure them the same way that the one they are stealing from did... so of course weighing lost of life vs. all the work involved seemed like a better trade off. Is it? Of course not... it is simply laziness being called bravery, theivery and being proud of it.

We? When pathological is the normalcy and it is... no such thing; you're either with us or against us in such a rhetorical mindset that draws such lines; instead of one that works to erase them. Of course such has to come from the people themselves; government roles that wish to maintain it's power never want to errode borders... speaking of Russia it was a great step forward for them to break into individual statehoods same as Britian letting go of territories it had claimed... of course, with the whole idea of proxy wars and destabilization? Those areas drawing their own borders become pockets of complexity and destabilization, to the order that sits close by that has a different set of rules and ideologies.

So when the larger powers get weak? Of course they are going to draw back and strengthen their borders just like a turtle just like a snail and hermit themselves against outside influence; and it requires massive amounts of propaganda and control to do it, thats the true state of what is currently going on. TPTB feeling like it's losing it's grip on that control and power over the people, are simply trying to reign in to keep on reigning.

Nonbias can remove the blinders that allows one to see how all of this works. If someone isn't biased; then they won't pick those sides of for us or against us when reading any of it; it will be between the lines of that in how it effects all of those involved.

a reply to: grainofsand

You're welcome