Texas police officer shoots man in back

a reply to: trollz

To be fair, the video isn't good. If he was walking away and he pulled a metallic piece, there still is a threat.

Crap situation. I imagine there will be more info to come.

Ok, so I decided to do some checking to see if other sources had picked up. So I found this from the Washington Post:

Source

Collie was charged with aggravated assault on a public servant but a grand jury declined to indict him.

That's interesting. It suggests the cops did not provide any evidence of weapon or assault, or the evidence was weak.

Fort Worth police on Wednesday defended the actions of the officers, who they have not named. Sgt. Marc Povero said in a statement that Collie failed to comply with commands to stop and that he appeared to point a silver object at the deputy, consistent with earlier reports by the robbery victim that a suspect flashed a silver handgun. Washington said Collie was not involved in the robbery. A box cutter found nearby didn’t belong to Collie, Washington said. The shooting occurred late at night and darkness obscures Collie’s actions, but the video seems to show him pointing in another direction as he walks away and it is not clear if there is anything in his hand.

Then there is this.

The footage really is too dark, and has no sound, so it's hard to really prove anything. What looked like it might be something in the guy's hand could also be a light trick/issue. Hard to say.

But he wasn't convicted of anything, either. Who knows.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: trollz
Yeah, the title sounds bad - however, I think this is a case of a justified shooting.

It's not justified. The cops created the situation where they then felt the need to shoot.

The cops are in control.

They can easily manage the situation differently.

They could follow the guy from a safe distance.

They could use drones to track the guy, so they can stand out of harms way.

They could tranquilize the guy, the same was we shoot tranquilizer darts into dangerous animals to subdue them safely, with no harm coming to any person nor animal.

There are countless "scenarios" that could be introduced into the situation to manage it without lethal force.

But, the cops always prefer to use lethal force, because it gets the job done "quicker", it's "efficient", and "black lives don't matter."

This is not the reality we live in. Cops show up to capture bad guys, not sit back and wait. If I call the cops because of some threat, I want them to come and take care of that threat NOW. Justified. As far as being shot in the back, it is entirely possible to run and fire/point behind you to some extent. Does not matter where the person is shot if they are a threat. Police will fire on whatever available target you give them, be it back, head, etc.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: trollz
Yeah, the title sounds bad - however, I think this is a case of a justified shooting.

It's not justified. The cops created the situation where they then felt the need to shoot.

The cops are in control.

They can easily manage the situation differently.

They could follow the guy from a safe distance.

They could use drones to track the guy, so they can stand out of harms way.

They could tranquilize the guy, the same was we shoot tranquilizer darts into dangerous animals to subdue them safely, with no harm coming to any person nor animal.

There are countless "scenarios" that could be introduced into the situation to manage it without lethal force.

But, the cops always prefer to use lethal force, because it gets the job done "quicker", it's "efficient", and "black lives don't matter."

With all due respect, most of those suggestions are completely unrealistic and frankly ridiculous. The inflammatory "black lies don't matter" was stated purely for shock value and to change the discussion. You should probably take a break from the internet if you are bothered today, or gain some maturity if this is your SoP.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: AMPTAH

Every possible scenario you posted shows the extreme level of ignorance that you have pertaining to dealing with situations like this.

Situations are created and managed by us humans. It involves choices we all make.

And behind those choices are our habits, beliefs, prejudices, ability to reason, etc...

The man could have been deaf, drunk and temporarily mentally incapacitated, mentally disabled, etc..

To assume that if he doesn't respond to your commands he must be dangerous because he's black is nothing but prejudice.

To imagine anything seen in the black man's hand must be a firearm, is again prejudice.

There are white men who point clearly loaded guns at police that simply get arrested.

The cops know the white lives matter, and they know there's a high cost to pay for making a mistake and shooting the wrong white person.

They know there's no penalty for making a mistake and shooting a black person, because black lives don't matter.

That's why, although only 12 percent of the population is black, the vast majority of the mistake shootings done by cops are of black folks.

They simply don't take the same "care and attention" in managing the situation when it's a black being followed.

The truth of this, is so obvious, its a puzzle how some people think this kind of killing is ever justified.

a reply to: trollz
Tasers! Why wouldn't they use tasers? They have a relatively good range and are supposed to be used first unless the police are definitely threatened with violence. Turning around or trying to flee is not definite violence.

Why even give them non lethal weapons if they are just going to grab their 9mm and start busting rounds after the slightest offense. Seriously?!? It's simply bad police work. Shotty violent uncalled for tactics. Bad police. Bad training.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
They were pretty quick to shoot the guy...

He was walking away when he saw the cops roll up and he could have been anybody at all yet the cops shot him ....wow...so if a cop comes up to you and wants to talk to you, you better do it quicksmart or you will be shot even if your back is turned....makes no difference who you are it simply makes a difference where you are...some places in the U.S are just plain scary ...

Seems you missed the part of pulling something out of his pocket....

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: trollz
Yeah, the title sounds bad - however, I think this is a case of a justified shooting.

It's not justified. The cops created the situation where they then felt the need to shoot.

The cops are in control.

They can easily manage the situation differently.

They could follow the guy from a safe distance.

They could use drones to track the guy, so they can stand out of harms way.

They could tranquilize the guy, the same was we shoot tranquilizer darts into dangerous animals to subdue them safely, with no harm coming to any person nor animal.

There are countless "scenarios" that could be introduced into the situation to manage it without lethal force.

But, the cops always prefer to use lethal force, because it gets the job done "quicker", it's "efficient", and "black lives don't matter."

It only took 3 follow up posts to get to BLACK LIVES DON'T MATTER.

I think that is a record.

well even if his hand was empty he tried to make it look as if he had a weapon .
he was in the prosses of turning and pointing the police were out in the open no cover at all .
Frankly I dont trust police at all and for all thouse who say if you have not done anything then you have no worrys is false.
Police dont reason they dont investigate all they do now is arrest .
And if you believe other wise then why was i in jail for 30 hours for stopping a teen from beating a child? wile every one else stood around looking stupid .
It was ovesly a boy 7 or 8 and a teen who was 16 beating the child . tell me how much time i should spend in jail for stopping that beating?
as a person a police can be good as a group they are no different then the thugs you are so afraid of.
who is more dangers when a criminal brakes into your home wanting to steal something of value hoping NOT to wake you .
Or the cop who you call who is coming into your home with a Gun drawn and is already thinking he may have to shoot someone ?

originally posted by: AMPTAH
The man could have been deaf, drunk and temporarily mentally incapacitated, mentally disabled, etc..

To assume that if he doesn't respond to your commands he must be dangerous because he's black is nothing but prejudice.

And this is a perfect example of why you're ignorant in your comments--you expect LEOs to be clairvoyant now and know this stuff before hand, or to hesitate in a dangerous situation because maybe this or maybe that? And where in this story or situation does it say anything about "because he was black." It's more about the fact that the man, regardless of his skin tone (which means notadamnthing, other than it apparently was part of a description of someone who committed a crime), pulled an object out of his pocket and apparently pointed it at police in a threatening manner.

I'm not sure on which planet you reside, but I'm capable of drawing my pistol out of my holster, chambering a round (if necessary...I always carry chambered, though), and firing off three rounds in less than 1.5 seconds (1.46 seconds, to be exact, and that's with relatively minimal training). Your fantasy world of LEOs having all of this time to make this or that decision (like deploying a drone...really?) in such a scenario is ignorant by ANY interpretation of the definition of that word.

You're a race-baiting commenter with seemingly zero knowledge about tactical engagement of someone who is a threat to your safety or life, or to the safety and life of others at the scene, and all you want to do is disregard the actions of the suspect so that you can interject racism and ignorant ideology.

The man in the video who decided that the best thing that he could do in this situation was to pull an object out of his pocket and turn and point it at police is the one who should be the focus of your ire, if you're willing to be honest. But you obviously are choosing not to be.

originally posted by: wdkirk
It only took 3 follow up posts to get to BLACK LIVES DON'T MATTER.

I think that is a record.

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic.

We should expect more out of our law enforcement, they shouldn't be reaching for a gun every time they feel an ounce of fear. They know the job can be dangerous, before they entered that line of work. I still think every rookie officer should go 3 years on the job training without carrying a firearm, training/veteran officer allowed to carry but not the rookie officers. That would teach them to think and use other skills beside lethal force.

Nice and detailed when it comes to justifiable homicide...bank robber should have been tried in a court of law, not shot to death. Aren't police trained to make a case that will stand up in court?

I expect unedited footage from the one making the decision to shoot, nice and detail oriented. To remove all doubt.

I've seen it too many times; shooting the suspect quiets his lips. And the shooter should have been in another line of work entirely, right?

a reply to: Echo007

Like I said in my original comment, training is always an issue in every PD, and I'm a huge advocate of more training (and making that training much more appropriate to dealing with civilians).

As far as reaching for a gun, sometimes that's all that they have--not every PD mandates, nor every officer carries, non-lethal weapons, like a taser (and even if they do, people still bitch about them using a taser...it's a lose/lose situation for LEOs). I'd definitely like to see more non-lethal weapons carried by officers.

But in this particular case--which is what this thread is about, not lethal force and LEO training in general--I think that, given all of the things that contributed to this officer firing lethal shots, this was a justified shooting. I would have preferred that a taser or rubber bullets had been used, but it's the actions of the suspect that warranted the use of a defensive weapon, lethal or not.

a reply to: SheepDipped

Sometimes cops deploy taser first, and then they fail, and then the cops die. Anyone who wants to be a smart ass, wise guy, or rebel at an officer pointing arms at them is welcome to be non compliant. But you cannot testify in court for your family when your six feet under the ground.

Swallow your damn pride, make yourself non threatening ASAP, and just comply with their commands and questions so you can go home alive. It really is not that difficult.


And for the cowboys out there, who really believes they are going to outdraw multiple targets already zero'd in on them, and win? Thats just tv, movies, and games right there.

Cops show up to capture bad guys, not sit back and wait. If I call the cops because of some threat, I want them to come and take care of that threat NOW.

Just shoot the first person seen and call it done. It's to the point where many reasonable people want to remove their self from any area where police are occupying, and for good reason, their own safety.

I looked to me as though he pointed in a direction which was not at the officers. Maybe toward one of the buildings.

I am willing to bet he said "I live right there and pointed down the sidewalk". His left arm is extended and pointing in the direction he is facing, 90 degrees to the officers.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

And this is a perfect example of why you're ignorant in your comments--you expect LEOs to be clairvoyant now and know this stuff before hand, or to hesitate in a dangerous situation because maybe this or maybe that?.

You're missing the major point.

The "idea that the situation is dangerous" is all in the cops mind.

The danger imagined is that the man is black.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

And this is a perfect example of why you're ignorant in your comments--you expect LEOs to be clairvoyant now and know this stuff before hand, or to hesitate in a dangerous situation because maybe this or maybe that?.

You're missing the major point.

The "idea that the situation is dangerous" is all in the cops mind.

The danger imagined is that the man is black.

exactly the cops had no idea who this guy was, he could have simply been a resident there....

The people justifying this are seriously delusional

originally posted by: roadgravel

I looked to me as though he pointed in a direction which was not at the officers. Maybe toward one of the buildings.

It looked to me as though he was pointing in the direction of the REAL robber.

Remember that folks. Don't point out the bad guy to the cops or they will mistakenly think you're pointing a weapon at them.

originally posted by: roadgravel
I am willing to bet he said "I live right there and pointed down the sidewalk". His left arm is extended and pointing in the direction he is facing, 90 degrees to the officers.

It's clear that the police report is a lie, they want us to believe he was pointing at the cops with a box cutter. When in fact he was pointing at the apartments. I would also bet there was no box cutter, most likely car keys or house keys. This is a perfect example of a happy trigger cop, and bad apples.