Democracy is Dead...What Next?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

No.

Please read up on the Electoral College, the state laws that govern how electors are appointed/voted into the position, and the state laws that govern how they must vote.

For starters, though, most states mandate that their electors vote for the candidate that won the majority of the state, so even in a state with multi-millions of people who vote, and the winner wins by a couple thousand, all electoral votes go to the overall winner.

That is not, in the least, letting everyone have their say, because the electors can become "faithless electors" and still vote the way that they choose, and some states can't/won't enforce laws saying otherwise.

Even though there is a similarity between a democratic voting process and the way the electoral college works, it should be painfully obvious that they don't match the popular vote at all, considering Clinton won the popular (democratic) vote, but Trump ran away with the presidency by quite the landslide where it constitutionally counts: The Electoral College.

There are quite the few threads on ATS about it with good detail and plenty of links--I don't need to reinvent that wheel if you want to research it more.

ETA: Also, it's not the general public that votes in or appoints the state electors, either, which further distances in from a democratic process.

go with the incoming tide...

help fashion the least offensive dystopia possible...

the globalist/elitist serfdom is unacceptable
the time-machine herded humans who provide the protein meat for the machine-engineers living underground---NO Way
the aristocrats of the 21st century is also unacceptable
the Soylent-Green model is also fascist/elitist
A world of bumbling 'Big-Bang-Theory' egg-heads is not reasonable but is a workable premise to start from... as certain parts of a GATTACA dystopia evolve into a living model of a sustainable society

but, I am adamant, no religious trappings with superior social ranks, or Deity Beings that overlord the collective US/WE

PhyllidaDavenport:

...the sovereign power is “inherent in the people, and is either exercised by themselves or by their representatives".

With regard to the 'power' being 'inherent in the people', it is meant that the people are a larger force, and can overcome government if it so wished to do so. The people as a whole, as a nation, overrule law, because that which is created cannot be greater than the creator, for otherwise, the demise of the creator lays by that path. Of course, they have to do it by force of revolution, but revolution is a legitimate last resort for the people to achieve their aims against a government whose ideological policy cannot be agreed with. It is by this percept that so-called patriotic militias in America are want to defend their country, but considering the insults the American people have received from successive administrations, the militias have been conspicuous by their silence and their absence.

No government can force the people to accept anything it does, except by subterfuge and the secret drawing about itself of greater executive powers...which is where revolution rears its head.

So what form of Government can and will work to appease the people?

How about an honest and transparent one. Wouldn't that be a novelty. One that does not place a global apparatus of surveillance around its own citizens and around the citizens of its allies nor matter what the reason for so-called national security. National security is the buffer behind which the government hides its 'against the people' policies. Only the people as a whole nation can force this issue, and shove it back down the throats of their governments, and their alphabet agencies.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

And yet Liberalism has been touted as freedom for all equality for all blah blah

Voter apathy is a problem I agree, however it seems lately that the voters are far from apathetic with the US election results and Brexit referendum.

This lack of respect for the process and whining demands for recounts and another referendum is something I would never have envisaged a few years ago and yet we in the West continue to force our form of Government Democracy and Capitalism on other countries despite the mess we've made of our own countries under such forms of Government? A tad hypocritical don't you think?

I get the feeling that slowly but surely we will lean far more towards a Nationalistic regime once again as was seen all over Europe during the 18th/19th centuries

a reply to: St Udio
Most of society is about 3 square meals away from cannibalism and the fat balding men in tailor made suits that run the world wont run it forever -an emp,a plague ,a war something will end it all eventually,the evil I see for the future is anarchical not structured

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: St Udio
Most of society is about 3 square meals away from cannibalism and the fat balding men in tailor made suits that run the world wont run it forever -an emp,a plague ,a war something will end it all eventually,the evil I see for the future is anarchical not structured

What is funny is that most of them are completely "unprepared" for such events. All those resources and no foresight.....

a reply to: elysiumfire

Thank you for that.

Revolution seems to be a thing of the past and as you say a last resort...but where do we draw the line? How much is too much or too little to bear?

Can anyone seriously see a revolution happening either here in the UK or USA? I for one can't. As has been seen over the last 20yrs or so we cannot unite against a common enemy. People are lazy apathetic and accepting. They are crippled with debt, mortgages, loans, school fees, many people work to simply survive so the thought of taking to the streets in strike action or revolt is out of the question to many.

We in Britain went through the strike era of the 1970's. Those strikes were our revolutions. We brought down Governments only to have all Unions hamstrung by later legislation and nationalised industries shut down or sold off to private companies and people conned into mortgages and "right to buy" then came the abolishing of student grants turned into loans. Saddle the people with debt they'll be too busy working it off to strike.

Perhaps I thought, we have no fight left in us after successive Government failures and then along came Brexit. We shouted for a referendum, we got it, we voted, we cried/cheered...then demanded another referendum until the "right" result was reached. When a people don't accept the democratically reached verdict, when they take to the streets protesting assaulting threatening and crying, democracy has failed

PhyllidaDavenport:

Liberalism has been touted as freedom for all equality for all blah blah.

It is an extreme form of liberalism. Moderate liberalism should basically be, live and let live as long as it harms no one else. The problem with contemporary liberalism (as I perceive it) is that it is too busy telling everyone what is right and what is wrong, and will not accept alternative viewpoints. It is a very invasive and intruding system of thought. Those who embrace it have no qualms on trampling on the liberal aspects of others, and crush them beneath the feet of their taking offence at every slight.

I get the feeling that slowly but surely we will lean far more towards a Nationalistic regime once again...

I think there's no choice in the matter, we have to return to middle ground, and to do that we will have to express a modicum of nationalistic tendencies. It doesn't mean we are going to turn into Nazi Germany, or that we are going to want to go to war with other countries. It means we are backing away from bad policies that if fully implemented would entail the dissolution of sovereignty and identity. Two things that I absolutely cherish.

I see no wrong in my proclaiming my pride in being British, and I do not see any wrong in any other citizen of any other country proclaiming an equal pride in their national identity. We are able to see each other clearly and without suspicion. I'll be damned if I allow my country to fall under the policies of the globalists, for they are the most insidious of all enemies.

PhyllidaDavenport:

...but where do we draw the line? How much is too much or too little to bear?

The line is drawn at your fellow compatriots. Any illegal wrongdoing committed upon them by government under the aegis of national security is when the government has turned against its own. Once that occurs, the people have absolutely no choice, but to remove that government, under no circumstance can it be allowed to hold onto the reins of the people's power. There are processes that can be employed to deal with such a government, but they are long and drawn out.

We in Britain went through the strike era of the 1970's.

I remember them well, I was a long-haired teen back then. The power cuts were such a lovely thing. As with all groups that gain power, they want more power and tried to grab it, the unions went from a good idea to a disease that made Britain the old and crippled man of Europe (not that we have ever been European). The unions had to be dealt a blow, but it received such a blow that it lead to the undermining of the miners, and their industry also fell. We just seem to blunder from one extreme to another.

a reply to: elysiumfire

So you're proud about the recent record of worst surveillance laws ever? I guess my grandpa the old Nazi (may god forgive him) would've been proud of you, too!



I will never get a grip on why being born randomly is sufficient enough to be proud of. One can be proud of the things achieved, but if you have none you're probably likely to search for pretty much anything in the broader field of heritage.

a reply to: infolurker

Most people believe the Government will somehow save them,looking at this year in Nice,Munich and Berlin its blatantly obvious they cant -all they can do is respond once something has happened and often as in the case of Katrina the response is less than acceptable they certainly cannot handle a national event.

The United States has never been a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. So you're basically asking a question for something that never existed in the first place.

PS. Our constitutional republic is just fine, thank you.

a reply to: khnum

Problem is, as I see it we all look for someone/something to save us whether it be religion governments technology or whatever.

Could we do a better job without a Government structure? Doubtful because at our core despite all our advances we are a very violent greedy people....and greed has been the downfall of many Governments and forms of Governments...just look at communism...always someone wanting more or getting more than his equal share

a reply to: gernblan

Its a representative republic often referred to as a democratic republic even by some of your own forefathers...oh and the Washington Post

I'm not nitpicking the words used to describe the Government of the USA my post is primarily relating to the fact that it appears most forms of Government have and are failing and in which case what's the alternative?

The UK is a consitutional Monarchy but is still referred to as a democracy...its a compromise

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Do humans en-masse need the threat of lethal force to keep them in check, yes they probably do,however,what happens when greed,corruption,pandering to special interests and robbing the poor to make the rich richer gets out of hand .Then the threat of death loses its sting as people have nothing to loose and much of the Western world is closing in on this point.

a reply to: khnum

Do you feel a revolution is inescapable? Do you think people will even care or bother to react to the corruption & greed anymore?

I think it unlikely. People are generally far too busy just trying to live Governments come and go...same old same old

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

In Russia in World War 2 280,000 partisans killed,wounded or captured 1000,000 germans,destroyed some 4000 armoured vehicles,58 armoured trains,10000 railroad engines 2000 railroad bridges and 65000 cars and trucks you are correct most wont do a damn thing but all it takes is 1 percent to revolt and you have big problems

a reply to: elysiumfire

Once we start to see a fragmentation to the over-arching ideology that kept us all working together, i.e, the concept of being a nation to which we all identify, we begin to see effects in society in general, because society begins to fragment, also. All societies collapse from the loss of ideology. It is the first domino to fall.

Brilliant observation that!

That's exactly what's happening in the US! And as you noted, identity politics is accelerating the collapse at an exponential rate! There was Brexit and now...........there's Calexit and I dare say its possible a majority of the fly-over country population would just as soon see California go! And as goes California? Texas might well be next although I highly doubt Calexit could work.

But the very fact that there is a Calexit movement points to the fact that the over arching ideology of the US as a nation state is quickly eroding into the history books. Oddly enough, that seems to be precisely what the NWO types want, no individually sovereign nations, and One World Government.

This isn't going to end well.

I think what's happened over the years of advancing technology is that people have taken to Facebook Twitter and Instagram now instead of taking to the streets. This is why the Snooping Bill is being passed. No longer do we have people on the front lines as it were protesting making their voices heard, we have instead social media which to most is enough

a reply to: TonyS

And yet the bit I don't get is, the NWO almost had a one Europe Government. That is now slowly collapsing. The refugee situation and resulting crime and inevitable culture clashes are in fact accelerating the lean towards Nationalism and I don't mean that in any radical way, I mean in so far as indigenous populations are wanting tougher immigration laws, jobs for indigenous people first, and in a few cases their own currency back. This is after years of failed liberal ideology propogated by successive Governments. So how will such Nationalism help the NWO?