Mass incarceration has nearly Zero effect on crime

“All of these policies were enacted because people believed that they were going to bring down crime,” she says, referring to policies that have contributed to the U.S.’s ballooning prison population, such as mandatory minimums in sentencing and certain drug laws. “But they didn’t actually bring down crime.”

California, for example, positioned itself at the forefront of a movement with new legislation for inmates. Between 2006 and 2012, the state slashed its prison population by 23 percent and violent crime fell by 21 percent

Since 1991, violent crime has been cut by more than half, and property crime shrunk by 43 percent, while imprisonment increased by 61 percent.

www.google.com... client=safari

a reply to: omniEther

Those private prisons sure do make people a lot of money though

Does this mean if we eliminate prisons we will have no crime?


What do you suggest to lower crime?

a reply to: Bluntone22

If we eliminate "laws" then there'd be nothing to break.

a reply to: Bluntone22

"What do you suggest to lower crime?"

Overall, dunno.
But with teenagers, hold their parents responsible.

No excuses.
If your kid has "issues", get him help.

Hanging out with the wrong kids? Move your family, or institute your own rules.

Kid doesn't listen, Take tech away, no online, no cell phones.

If parents cant raise their kids, and think they can unleash them on the rest of the people, they should be accountable.

Then maybe, the teenagers wont grown up to commit crimes as adults.

Maybe then crime rates could go down...maybe...

Maybe they aren't enforcing certain laws?

a reply to: omniEther

1991 was about the time when they started 'The Crack War' when the person from the ghetto made more $$$ than those whose game it was/IS. When the Urban (read: "Black" or 'other'; non-affluent; non-voter) received 20-25 years Prison while the subUrban person (read: White; voter; affluent) received Probation for using the same drug but in a smokable form (crack; rock) while 'whitey' used powder or whiff (coc aine hydrochloride)..

There isn't 'more' dope being used in "low income housing" compared to the Suburbs. The difference is the folks in the low income housing won't/can't afford a private attorney so they fall prey to the "Plea Bargain" Over 90% incarcerated are there on a "Plea Bargain".

You can see if the jail in Your County is "private" by reading the local newspaper's Police Log. If it is run by the County, the folks will be released on a citation or their own recognizance. If it is a Private Jail- Everyone goes to jail and the local taxpayer gets to pay a "Booking Fee" (boondoggle)

Proud Member of LEAP•Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

You have the RIGHT to remain 'silent' USE IT!!

Incarceration is meant to take criminals off the street. That way , they cannot perform future crimes. The problem with the US , we have too damn many criminals.

a reply to: Gothmog

Too many laws that make people criminals for no good reason or too many criminals, because If a man can't live the way he chooses to live he has no choice but to become criminal.

Having a natural plant from earth growing in your backyard makes you a criminal.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk will make you a criminal,

and also fishing to feed your family without a license makes you a criminal.

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: Gothmog

Too many laws that make people criminals for no good reason or too many criminals, because If a man can't live the way he chooses to live he has no choice but to become criminal.

Having a natural plant from earth growing in your backyard makes you a criminal.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk will make you a criminal,

and also fishing to feed your family without a license makes you a criminal.

Having a small amount is a misdemeanor in most states. No prison. It5 is the selling part that is a criminal offense.
Riding a bike on marked sidewalks comes with a warning most times even though that is a citation and neither a crime , nor imprisonment.
Fishing or hunting without a license is there to preserve wildlife. Most hunters DO NOT hunt for food to feed families.Nor do fisherman . It is for a meal every now and then. Something different.
Understand better now ? Gee , I hope so....

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: Gothmog

Too many laws that make people criminals for no good reason or too many criminals, because If a man can't live the way he chooses to live he has no choice but to become criminal.

Having a natural plant from earth growing in your backyard makes you a criminal.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk will make you a criminal,

and also fishing to feed your family without a license makes you a criminal.

Having a small amount is a misdemeanor in most states. No prison. It5 is the selling part that is a criminal offense.
Riding a bike on marked sidewalks comes with a warning most times even though that is a citation and neither a crime , nor imprisonment.
Fishing or hunting without a license is there to preserve wildlife. Most hunters DO NOT hunt for food to feed families.Nor do fisherman . It is for a meal every now and then. Something different.
Understand better now ? Gee , I hope so....

Well mister.. you seem to have an answer for everything and it appears you have no issue with people being labeled criminal.
How do you justify a person being labeled a criminal, deserving of punishment..... for driving without a seatbelt?
Will you also justify that the federal government threatened every state that voted against it with punishment if they did not reconsider and vote it into law?

originally posted by: Zimnydran

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: Gothmog

Too many laws that make people criminals for no good reason or too many criminals, because If a man can't live the way he chooses to live he has no choice but to become criminal.

Having a natural plant from earth growing in your backyard makes you a criminal.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk will make you a criminal,

and also fishing to feed your family without a license makes you a criminal.

Having a small amount is a misdemeanor in most states. No prison. It5 is the selling part that is a criminal offense.
Riding a bike on marked sidewalks comes with a warning most times even though that is a citation and neither a crime , nor imprisonment.
Fishing or hunting without a license is there to preserve wildlife. Most hunters DO NOT hunt for food to feed families.Nor do fisherman . It is for a meal every now and then. Something different.
Understand better now ? Gee , I hope so....

Well mister.. you seem to have an answer for everything and it appears you have no issue with people being labeled criminal.
How do you justify a person being labeled a criminal, deserving of punishment..... for driving without a seatbelt?
Will you also justify that the federal government threatened every state that voted against it with punishment if they did not reconsider and vote it into law?

Again , most of these are not crimes. They are citations.Well mister, it seems like you have a very large ignorance gap on what is a citation and what is a crime....
Once you fill that gap , please come back and we can continue our discussion
Incarceration is the subject . And not citation offenses nor misdemeanors that are not criminal offenses.

I agree with the premise of the OP...... So let me propose to you my solution to reduce the prison population and at the same time lower crime statistics.

Exterminate violent offenders immediately after their 2nd conviction..... it also gives incentive to not act violently while incarcerated.... wouldnt want conviction number 2 while your already doing time now would ya.

Returning violent people into the general population is a crime against humanity. These people breed and pass their defective genes unto a new generation as well as teach their offspring that violence is the way to resolve conflict.

Everyone makes mistakes and everyone deserves a chance at redemption.,,,, but the men, woman and children of any civil society do not deserve to live in fear, no matter where they live or what social status they were born in.

People who have proven themselves a menace to society should not be sharing the limited resources we have available to us. Too many people have suffered at the hands of repeat offenders. You can hire a million more policeman if you want. It wont help. Cops are not here to protect us, they are here to clean up the after the fact and hopefully find out who done it.

Imagine how much safer our inner cities would be for the good people that lived there...... if every person they encountered during their day...... had never harmed a person more than 1x.

Until you remove violent people from society...... you are assured a violent society...... unless of course you believe that with training and education everyone will hold hands and sing kum-by-ya and play nice together....... but we have been trying that for the last 60 years with dismal results...... maybe it's time to try something else

originally posted by: Zimnydran
I agree with the premise of the OP...... So let me propose to you my solution to reduce the prison population and at the same time lower crime statistics.

Exterminate violent offenders immediately after their 2nd conviction..... it also gives incentive to not act violently while incarcerated.... wouldnt want conviction number 2 while your already doing time now would ya.

Returning violent people into the general population is a crime against humanity. These people breed and pass their defective genes unto a new generation as well as teach their offspring that violence is the way to resolve conflict.

Everyone makes mistakes and everyone deserves a chance at redemption.,,,, but the men, woman and children of any civil society do not deserve to live in fear, no matter where they live or what social status they were born in.

People who have proven themselves a menace to society should not be sharing the limited resources we have available to us. Too many people have suffered at the hands of repeat offenders. You can hire a million more policeman if you want. It wont help. Cops are not here to protect us, they are here to clean up the after the fact and hopefully find out who done it.

Imagine how much safer our inner cities would be for the good people that lived there...... if every person they encountered during their day...... had never harmed a person more than 1x.

Until you remove violent people from society...... you are assured a violent society...... unless of course you believe that with training and education everyone will hold hands and sing kum-by-ya and play nice together....... but we have been trying that for the last 60 years with dismal results...... maybe it's time to try something else

You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with the death penalty. Until we can get them on our side, we are stuck with the current broken system. Which exists to feed itself.

I submit that mass-incarceration does have an effect on crime.

The prisons serve as a sort of defacto criminal university system. They take minor criminals (such as someone being used as a mule [drug transporter]) and teach them to be a more efficient criminal. Especially since once they have done their time and get released, they are no longer allowed to contribute to society to their fullest extent (thus negating the positives of rehabilitative training in prison) and must again resort to crime.

We are essentially training better criminals.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Does this mean if we eliminate prisons we will have no crime?

What do you suggest to lower crime?

Look at countrys with lower crime.

Focus more on rehabilitation than punishment (for non violent crime).

a reply to: omniEther

All these laws are in place to control the population,instill fear by jailing people,fines,ruining their lives I'm wondering,why is it ok to fish,hunt,visit a park when you pay for it? because the government says so? in other words if you pay someone off it justify's the means,can't grow your own food,collect rain water,it's like they are trying to trip you up,it's the socialist agenda under the current regime,I'm hoping many laws are repealed,and they get rid of many government policing agencys,and get rid of the Sierra club,this all creates taxes,and like it or not if your working and paying taxes,your funding these very things against you,kind of like trying to piss up a rope

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Zimnydran

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: Gothmog

Too many laws that make people criminals for no good reason or too many criminals, because If a man can't live the way he chooses to live he has no choice but to become criminal.

Having a natural plant from earth growing in your backyard makes you a criminal.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk will make you a criminal,

and also fishing to feed your family without a license makes you a criminal.

Having a small amount is a misdemeanor in most states. No prison. It5 is the selling part that is a criminal offense.
Riding a bike on marked sidewalks comes with a warning most times even though that is a citation and neither a crime , nor imprisonment.
Fishing or hunting without a license is there to preserve wildlife. Most hunters DO NOT hunt for food to feed families.Nor do fisherman . It is for a meal every now and then. Something different.
Understand better now ? Gee , I hope so....

Well mister.. you seem to have an answer for everything and it appears you have no issue with people being labeled criminal.
How do you justify a person being labeled a criminal, deserving of punishment..... for driving without a seatbelt?
Will you also justify that the federal government threatened every state that voted against it with punishment if they did not reconsider and vote it into law?

Again , most of these are not crimes. They are citations.Well mister, it seems like you have a very large ignorance gap on what is a citation and what is a crime....
Once you fill that gap , please come back and we can continue our discussion
Incarceration is the subject . And not citation offenses nor misdemeanors that are not criminal offenses.

I have a ticket for riding a bike on the sidewalk that's why I included it.

They are still criminal offenses either way you try to put it. Which means if broken is a crime, and a criminal is anyone who breaks the law.

You will be arrested or pay a fine which if not paid you'll get arrested.

Your OP is a mess. Your reasoning points towards there being a link, and you say there's no link. You talk about a single state that had a program recently for a much shorter time frame, and say that this proves there's no link.

Here's something to think about... complex social trends have more than 1 variable. They have numerous.

This is a longer-range view:



Now my question is WTH changed after 1960 to cause such an increase in violent crime, regardless of incarceration rates? Also, what appears to have impacted violent crime decline, in spite of the decrease of incarceration rates?

I wonder how much environmental pollution contributed, and how cleaning up our environment might have helped. Or maybe it's all the people experimenting with dangerous pharmaceuticals causing the rise, and now we have better blends of rx that pacify the population?

I really don't know, it could be as easy as we're all so mindlessly entertained on the cheap.