Pope extends power to forgive abortion to all Roman Catholic priests

originally posted by: Joneselius
This guy is the biggest joke to ever 'grace' the Catholic church (I don't like the RCC at the best of times) I honestly believe he's an infiltrator, there to set the church back many years and eradicate any progress and respect it had garnered itself. This is just as abominable as the selling of indulgences.

This is kind of funny, because the pope is actually catching up the catholic church to modern times. Funny how you view that as setting the church back, when abortion is not even mentioned in the bible. The church now accepts evolution, possibility of alien life, more support of gay marriage than previously and forgiveness of abortion in certain situations, because that's how modern reality is. We live in a scientific progressive society. If you don't get with the times, your religion will die out like most of its predecessors, so it makes sense for the pope to do what he's doing. Circumstance matters, you can't just have a black and white solution for something that involves way more than that, for example the 9 year old mentioned above that would have died giving birth after being molested. In your black and white world, that 9 year old would be going to hell.

It's logical and justified, rather than sticking with some archaic version of morality rules that is extremely archaic and outdated. If you think about it Christians that join the military and commit murder are treated like heroes, even though they commit mortal sin. It's kind of funny how nobody mentions that. The bible does not have an asterisk next to thou shalt not kill, yet more than half of the military is comprised of Christians. Hmmmmm.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: FauxMulder
I just find it funny that the Pope thinks he alone has the power to give permission to forgive. No one has exclusive rights to such a power.

According to the Catholic church, the pope does have that power.

Vatican II removed the priests power to forgive ALL of these sins (except for one). For hundreds of years, priests were allowed, to pray and perform such graces. Since Vat II (a heresy), the "pope must delegate these "privileges to the Cardinals and Bishops. This has only continued to degrade Catholicism.

a reply to: Violater1

Hey it's still way better than the evangelical view that the bible is absolutely literal word of god, not to be questioned. At least they are trying to not live in the past.

originally posted by: Violater1

originally posted by: VegHead
This is such a confusing concept to me. Only God can forgive sins. How can one man grant another man the power to do something only God can do?

And... in His mercy and grace, God does forgive.

Gee, I guess He was kidding when He taught us this part of His prayer, "and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."
IMHO, we do have the power to forgive sins.

Those are words to live by. We should all be quick to forgive. But your reference to the Lord's Prayer leads me to believe you might be confusing human forgiveness with divine forgiveness of sin. These are two very different things.

ETA, to clarify.... I can (and I'm called to) forgive the man that murdered my brother .... but my forgiveness will not keep the murderer out of hell. Only his repentance and forgiveness from God can do that.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Violater1

Hey it's still way better than the evangelical view that the bible is absolutely literal word of god, not to be questioned. At least they are trying to not live in the past.

Our Lord Jesus Christs words have never changed, never will, and will always be. Christ is ever present, and controls time Himself. It is man that wants to change the word of GOD to fit his own petty, selfish indulgences.
Back on track, abortion is murder, capital punishment is murder.
Except for one, all sins offend GOD equally.
Ever since GOD became flesh and blood, He taught us to come to Him. He knows when our hearts are truly sorry for offending Him. And because of His suffering, His sacrifice, His pouring out of The Holy Ghost upon us, we live.

I thought only god had the power to forgive sins? according to the bible anyway.

As long as a religion considers contraception or abortion as a sin, it is also responsible for much suffering in this world. In addition, it is also responsible for the overpopulation and all its subsequent problems.

Instead of encouraging overpopulation, leaders should do something about it.

If you are interested in this topic overpopulation, i can recommend www.everythingconnects.org... to you. This website is not very up-to-date, but it provides a good overview. Something, that i am missing: By 2050 we won't have enough food worldwide. Foods will become more expensive the next years. Poor people have to eat cheaper genetically modified food. Lack of food will lead do mass migrations. A lot of people from Africa and Sout Asia will want to come to Europe. But Europe will reject most of them.

Some countries already try to solve their overpopulation problem by mass abortions, laws and financial incentives. Unfortunatelly often without noticeable success.

I am ready to help.

a reply to: loam

Half of me is surprised, the other half, not so much.

I think it's always been their unspoken policy except now

they've made it public. That's why it appears shocking.

originally posted by: Violater1

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Violater1

Hey it's still way better than the evangelical view that the bible is absolutely literal word of god, not to be questioned. At least they are trying to not live in the past.

Our Lord Jesus Christs words have never changed, never will, and will always be. Christ is ever present, and controls time Himself. It is man that wants to change the word of GOD to fit his own petty, selfish indulgences.
Back on track, abortion is murder, capital punishment is murder.
Except for one, all sins offend GOD equally.
Ever since GOD became flesh and blood, He taught us to come to Him. He knows when our hearts are truly sorry for offending Him. And because of His suffering, His sacrifice, His pouring out of The Holy Ghost upon us, we live.

You tell it bro!

a reply to: loam

Yeah.....I saw it and was pleased...but --
lots of people are totally distracted right now, unable to latch on to the spinning carousel.

I love this Pope. He's so real.
Makes me proud to be an Episcopalian....no longer practicing but carrying a lot of the accessories none-the-less.

My English ancestors came over with Wm Penn in the 1630s....
LOL!!!

Puritans:

H.L. Mencken:

“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

Such a joyless, long-suffering, put-upon existence they want you to lead.
blegh

So who forgives again? God or the Pope?

originally posted by: Violater1
Our Lord Jesus Christs words have never changed, never will, and will always be. Christ is ever present, and controls time Himself. It is man that wants to change the word of GOD to fit his own petty, selfish indulgences.
Back on track, abortion is murder, capital punishment is murder.
Except for one, all sins offend GOD equally.
Ever since GOD became flesh and blood, He taught us to come to Him. He knows when our hearts are truly sorry for offending Him. And because of His suffering, His sacrifice, His pouring out of The Holy Ghost upon us, we live.

That's a hefty load of assumptions right there. Jesus' "words" were written down by man, not god. Just because the Christian religion doesn't change the bible, doesn't mean that it is literally correct or factually accurate. If you think god actually wrote the bible, you are taking on a huge assumption, especially considering that the gospels were written by 4 different authors that have different quotes from Jesus, one of which clearly plagiarized one of the others. Plus many other gospels have been discarded by man because they didn't fit the narrative.

Even claiming that abortion is murder is not provable, it is assumed and not mentioned in the same bible that condones slavery and capital punishment. If god is all powerful and all knowing, then I find it hard to believe that he doesn't understand circumstance and thinks of everything black and white as you do. You seriously believe that the 9 year old that would have died during childbirth is going to hell for saving her life rather than choosing to go down with the ship? Sorry I don't think an advanced super intelligence like god would be that shortsighted and judge people like a dictator while not even giving us a remote indication that the bible is accurate or that he even exists.

a reply to: Violater1

A fetus/golem has no soul (Psalm 139:16). So abortion is not murder, and to call someone who has had an abortion, a murderer, is to make a false accusation. That in itself is a serious judgement to bring down upon yourself, since as you judge others, it will come back to you.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Violater1

A fetus/golem has no soul (Psalm 139:16). So abortion is not murder, and to call someone who has had an abortion, a murderer, is to make a false accusation. That in itself is a serious judgement to bring down upon yourself, since as you judge others, it will come back to you.

Wow! Erm, who are you and what have you done with the mad-rooster BELIEVERpriest?

Thank you for posting this, my friend. We've been back and forth numerous times, but I truly appreciate it, and this is a fabulous post.

I am grateful. I am giving thanks.

originally posted by: craterman
So who forgives again? God or the Pope?

An irrelevant and meaningless question.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Still the same old me. I've always been pro-choice. I take the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible over Denominational tradition. I don't believe in tithing either, but that is a different issue.

The Pro-life/Pro-choice issue is political non-issue used to keep Christians voting Republican and Pro-choicers voting Democrat. I myself am Libertarian. Live and let live.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Also, and by the way ----
just by the way, really, because it's a fundamental difference in our beliefs, but incidentally we are both of the same view on the subject of discussion.


Now - you say that the unborn have no soul, and that's why you think it's okay. I can understand that, and respect it. I am inclined toward the speculative: that the soul is very much intact, but has chosen that particular vehicle (incarnation) in order to teach the others involved something.

This I heard from a very wise lady who could see beyond the veil. She was aware of 'angels', 'spirit guides', and the "Divine" --- she explained that the over-soul, or the "higher self" always decides which 'incarnate' life to animate...sometimes for their own self to learn something (rather like karmic empathy), or to teach something (such as dealing with grief).

I actually like that explanation better. And it happens to make more sense to me.

But, whatever your foundation, I'm glad you are not frothing at the mouth about it. Neither am I. On that we agree.
*handshake*

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm trying not to foam a the mouth so much anymore. Lets see how long I can last without having to take another extended break from ATS. However, I will say this; I will always foam up against the Donald Trump crowd. The Alt-Right, the Seven Mountains cult, and the sold out GOP are deserving of harsh criticism. So I am against any Christian that supports these blasphemers.

Im curious about your belief. Do you believe that the soul enters the flesh at some point during gestation, or do you believe it is when the fetus exits the womb that it "inhales the soul"?

If I remember correctly, Buddhism teaches that the soul enters the fetus at some point while in the womb. It that case, wouldn't abortion be considered murder by those beliefs?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Well, I'm glad you asked. I'd be happy to explain my belief, as long as you give it the same respect you'd like me to give yours.

I believe that in between embodiments - that in between lifetimes, that is - the ethereal soul, which is an eternal being preparing to have a physical experience, is choosing what experiences they need to add to their 'resume'. I believe it has to do with karma.....

a soul who has murdered someone in the past might choose to become a murder victim next time, to get the karma balanced. A soul who was a religious bigot might choose a different route and "embark" on a mission to teach a young woman what it's like to have a horribly deformed or impossibly ill baby, or to have to choose between the two.

Sophie's choice ring a bell?

I believe that on a more spiritually mature plane, we all are on a mission, a personalized journey heading for the same original destination.

There is no "heaven" or "hell" except what we live here.....and we choose to enter whichever long before we are born to a specific (and screened and chosen) family.
I also believe we reincarnate in 'soul groups'.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

K. Thanks for explaining. Do you believe the soul enters the fetus during some stage of gestation (in womb), or upon exiting the womb?