SU-27 F-16 dog fight near Groom Lake

www.lazygranch.com...

Some great SU-27 photos fell into my lap today. They were shot from an area near Mail Box Road. The planes were above the Power Line Overlook. It is believed the SU-27 lives at Groom Lake.

a reply to: gariac

Nice catch, I bet that was a sight to see and hear. I wonder what the F-16 was testing up there and which plane came out the victor. Can anyone ID the pod on the left wing of the Falcon/Viper?

Zaphod is going to love this I bet. Probably have some answers about it too. I have always had a fascination with planes. Don't really know a dang thing about them but I love watching them. Used to sit at the end of Fort Lauderdale Airports runway and watch them come and go for hours. Lol where I went and hid out.

Saw some crazy close calls too. There was a Canadian Airbus that had to change its mind from landing and it was probably only 20 feet at the most from touching down. Those engines screamed. It all looked like slow motion for a minute there. I'm sure there were a few wet seats after that one.

Used to watch the Blue Angels from there too and the rest of the birds in the show. Was really awesome.

Whatever that plane is, it looks sleek as heck....
Cool pictures btw

a reply to: onehuman

That first close up image is a F-16 used by the US and many other countries, whats gets even more interesting is the Su-27 is of Russian origin and used for research and testing out of Area 51. So just seeing a Su-27 in the States is something but there you have one in a simulated scrape doing some turning and burning.

a reply to: StratosFear

I'm going with the AN/ALQ-188.

From the furthest away to closest, I'm going with Aim-9 Training pod, AN/ALQ-188, centerline fuel tank, EL/L-8222, TACTS or a telemetry pod.

a reply to: StratosFear

TacAir has two SU-27s they use for Red Air against their clients, along with a number of other foreign aircraft.

originally posted by: StratosFear
a reply to: onehuman

That first close up image is a F-16 used by the US and many other countries, whats gets even more interesting is the Su-27 is of Russian origin and used for research and testing out of Area 51. So just seeing a Su-27 in the States is something but there you have one in a simulated scrape doing some turning and burning.

Maybe a stupid question but how would they get their hands on a Su-27

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

Other nations that have them. They need other equipment, or can't keep up with the cost of maintenance so they sell them to us. We buy what they need and transfer to them under the table, usually by placing the order under their name, or some other deal along those lines.

a reply to: Zaphod58
There goes my idea that it involved sneaky secret missions to capture them

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

It's so much easier and less risky to buy them.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StratosFear

TacAir has two SU-27s they use for Red Air against their clients, along with a number of other foreign aircraft.

I wouldn't rule out this being a rent-a-bogie and unrelated to Groom. Two reasons. First, the SU-27 is camo. Groom wouldn't bother with that. Second, Groom already flogged the SU-27 in the period when I got those very high altitude shots. I was told the SU-27 was commonly seen east of Groom, though nobody had photographic evidence.

Counter to the rent-a-bogie theory is the use of that airspace location. It is not a common spot for Nellis. It is a location Groom uses for white world projects.

What we need to see to verify the rent-a-bogie is a photo of the SU-27 at Nellis.

originally posted by: ThePeaceMaker

originally posted by: StratosFear
a reply to: onehuman

That first close up image is a F-16 used by the US and many other countries, whats gets even more interesting is the Su-27 is of Russian origin and used for research and testing out of Area 51. So just seeing a Su-27 in the States is something but there you have one in a simulated scrape doing some turning and burning.

Maybe a stupid question but how would they get their hands on a Su-27

Anyone here could have purchased a working pair as late as 2009. They were and are still in the US fully flight operational except for weapons, in the skies and in private hands....

Not a bad looking one at that..




Pride Aircraft

a reply to: gariac

Not sure what you mean when you say "Groom wouldn't bother with [camo paint scheme]" on the MiG/Su birds. I was told by a former Red Hats commander that they flew the foreign fighters with whatever paint scheme they arrived in. Pictures of the MiG-17F (circa 1969) and Su-22 (circa 1994) over Groom show aircraft in various camouflage schemes. The only unpainted MiGs that I know of were the HAVE DOUGHNUT MiG-21, an early MiG-17, and the MiG-21U trainer. There may have been others, but most were painted in various came patterns. It was as much a matter of simple convenience as it was important to the tactical evaluation aspect of the program. I imagine this still holds true.

originally posted by: Shadowhawk
a reply to: gariac

Not sure what you mean when you say "Groom wouldn't bother with [camo paint scheme]" on the MiG/Su birds. I was told by a former Red Hats commander that they flew the foreign fighters with whatever paint scheme they arrived in. Pictures of the MiG-17F (circa 1969) and Su-22 (circa 1994) over Groom show aircraft in various camouflage schemes. The only unpainted MiGs that I know of were the HAVE DOUGHNUT MiG-21, an early MiG-17, and the MiG-21U trainer. There may have been others, but most were painted in various came patterns. It was as much a matter of simple convenience as it was important to the tactical evaluation aspect of the program. I imagine this still holds true.

Camo patterns are unique. If you acquired a plane by dubious means, why would you advise to the world that you got said plane? That seems like the definition of an infosec violation.

a reply to: gariac

There's no reason they can't repaint them however they want.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: gariac

There's no reason they can't repaint them however they want.

But then why repaint them in camo at all for mere testing purposes? At least the kind of testing Groom does. Note the SU-27 I photographed appears to be white.

I'm leaning more towards FWS training at this point. They would want a camo themed plane.

Incidentally that photo where they both have a 12 o'clock doesn't look too good as far as training goes.

I wonder if they repainted the blue balls color in the cockpit.

a reply to: gariac

From a tactical exploitation standpoint, camouflage is one of the things being evaluated. They want to assess the visual appearance of the enemy aircraft during air combat maneuvers. Regardless of whether it seems logical, the Red Hats and Red Eagles aircraft have photographically documented in a variety of camouflage schemes. At least some of these paint jobs were original, but aircraft were also occasionally repainted to reflect changing threats. The MiG-23 in the Threat Training Facility at Nellis used to be displayed in its original East German camo with the national insignia removed. Later, it was painted in Iraqi camo and markings.

originally posted by: Shadowhawk
a reply to: gariac

From a tactical exploitation standpoint, camouflage is one of the things being evaluated. They want to assess the visual appearance of the enemy aircraft during air combat maneuvers. Regardless of whether it seems logical, the Red Hats and Red Eagles aircraft have photographically documented in a variety of camouflage schemes. At least some of these paint jobs were original, but aircraft were also occasionally repainted to reflect changing threats. The MiG-23 in the Threat Training Facility at Nellis used to be displayed in its original East German camo with the national insignia removed. Later, it was painted in Iraqi camo and markings.

And these were flown where the public could easily view them? Things are different now that Groom Lake is a tourist attraction.

A few years ago I saw a SU-30 from India that was here for Red Flag and a IL-78