NASA discovers water 'spewing' on Jupiter moon Europa

a reply to: Denoli

This has got to be one of the biggest discoveries for a while

I like it how they announce something groundbreaking which was already spotted several years ago...just not confirmed.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Denoli

This has got to be one of the biggest discoveries for a while

I like it how they announce something groundbreaking which was already spotted several years ago...just not confirmed.

Correct. The plumes were not spotted years ago -- just water vapor in space above Europa.

They speculated at the time that vapor suggested the presence of plumes or geysers (similar in concept to those of Enceladus), but they had no confirmation as to if the plumes existed, and if they did, where they existed. Until now.

Now that they know, they could potentially start planning a mission to go sample that water, or bring a sample of it back to Earth for a detailed analysis. They have a concept of a mission to Enceladus to return a sample of its water (spewing from plumes) back to Earth, but Enceladus is so far away that the time and distance involved in such a trip may make it cost prohibitive.

Now that they have found similar plumes of water at Europa -- water just sitting there for the taking -- they may start to consider a Europa water analysis mission or a sample return mission.

All these worlds are yours

Except Europa

Attempt no landing there

Use them together

Use them in peace

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

As much as this is a great find/confirmation...lately It just seems as when NASA announces something "big"...it's usually just a confirmation on something rather old. When I say confirmation...it means...that most...common folk and scientists alike...have already known and acted as if it's confirmed already.

I mean come on. Oceans on Europa ?...tell me the first time you heard that claim. Probably around the making of Soylent Green...

to further prove a point...

Space.com

Space.com calls it a "surprising" discovery.

WTF ??

How is it surprising ?

Astronomers will present results from a unique Europa observing campaign that resulted in surprising evidence of activity that may be related to the presence of a subsurface ocean on Europa,

like the idea of Europa having oceans is never before mentioned.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

As much as this is a great find/confirmation...lately It just seems as when NASA announces something "big"...it's usually just a confirmation on something rather old. When I say confirmation...it means...that most...common folk and scientists alike...have already known and acted as if it's confirmed already.

I mean come on. Oceans on Europa ?...tell me the first time you heard that claim. Probably around the making of Soylent Green...

NASA never used the word "Big" when they announced this media conference, just a "surprising finding". It was social media and places such as ATS who called it a "Big announcement".

It can be argued that the "surprising finding" of the plumes/geysers shooting Europa's water into space was 3 years in the making -- and hence they should NOT be so surprised --because the plumes were suspected to exist 3 years ago due to Hubble discovering the presence of water vapor above Europa.

However, and considering the big picture, it is surprising to find these plumes because they were not noticed before by the Voyager probes during two flybys, or the Galileo Probe that spent years orbiting Jupiter.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
to further prove a point...

Space.com

Space.com calls it a "surprising" discovery.

WTF ??

How is it surprising ?

Astronomers will present results from a unique Europa observing campaign that resulted in surprising evidence of activity that may be related to the presence of a subsurface ocean on Europa,

like the idea of Europa having oceans is never before mentioned.

The discovery was NOT the ocean, but rather (as you wrote in your quote) "surprising evidence of activity that may be related to the presence of a subsurface ocean on Europa"...

the discovery is related to the oceans -- i.e., the "surprising discovery" are the plumes eminating from Europa, and that is what related to the oceans . The "surprising discovery" is NOT the ocean itself.

And as I said above, plumes or geysers were suspected (due to circumstantial evidence) to possibly be the source of the water vapor Hubble detected around Europa in 2013, but the idea that plumes or geysers were the cause of that water vapor was never confirmed until now.


Now that they know that the water vapor Hubble detected in 2013 is indeed water from Europa's ocean, that makes a mission to analyze that water for life signs or habitability --an analysis that can be done far more easily (cheaply) than needing to drill through kilometers of ice to get to the water.

A word of wisdom to NASA: don't use subjective words like "surprising" in official anouncements. Let the public decide what is surprising and what isn't.



A word of wisdom to the public: don't equate guesses and suppositions with the actual truth. Direct and verified scientific observations is what counts.

a reply to: Denoli

I think we're missing the point, too. A planetary body that is normally frozen is melting. Geez, kinda reminds me of global warming. It's almost like there is an outside influence causing other bodies to react like our planet. Hmmmm.

a reply to: wildespace

Direct and verified or do you mean theory taught as fact? Deny ignorance, right?

Since water is so common, whose to say that our moon, Earth's moon, doesn't contain huge amounts of water deep under it's crust?

By the way, does our moon have an official name, like the moons around other planets?

a reply to: Denoli

I find their conclusion that these plumes could be water rather plerpexing. Water freezes on earth simply because the curcature of the earth at the poles.

how much further far away from the sun is Jupiter than the earth ???????????????????????????????????????????

what are the temperatures at jupiter??

Just because something is spewing out of Europa what evidence is there for the conclusion its water??????

Sounds to me like they want it to be water. Why would they want it to be water?

to get public hopes up
to give the public a dream
to inspire and rally the public around a single objective just like the "to put a man on the moon' did.
perhaps to create a fake project so they can channel the mega funds, required for a trip to Europa, into black projects.
so they can levy a global "Europa" tax on the world to get them accustomed to paying such global taxes.

originally posted by: ColdChillin
a reply to: wildespace

Direct and verified or do you mean theory taught as fact? Deny ignorance, right?

Well, in this case, I mean direct observations of plumes on Europa in UV by the Hubble. Stop trying to muddy the waters.

originally posted by: carewemust
Since water is so common, whose to say that our moon, Earth's moon, doesn't contain huge amounts of water deep under it's crust?

By the way, does our moon have an official name, like the moons around other planets?

reasonably sure that if the moon was full of water we'd be able to tell, there'd be all sorts of not-so-subtle effects we'd have to take into account calculating gravity and tides and so on

and i think the 'official' name would be Luna but i could be wrong - it's trickier with our moon because we've known about it since there was an us to know anything so there wasn't necessarily a naming as such

The possibility of Space Whales would seemed to have just increased!
Sweet find!

originally posted by: [post=21304413]Azureblue

...Just because something is spewing out of Europa what evidence is there for the conclusion its water??????

Sounds to me like they want it to be water. Why would they want it to be water?

in this case, Hubble telescope used spectrographic analysis of the vapor to determine that the vapor was water.

Hubble Space Telescope Sees Evidence of Water Vapor Venting off Jupiter Moon

That vapor was seen by the Hubble Telescope back in 2013, but they couldn't confirm at the time whether or not the source of the water vapor was the sub-surface ocean beneath Europa -- until now (with these new Hubble observations).


And, by the way, they know that Europa has a surface of water-ice due to spectrographic and another analysis done by the Voyager probes and the Galileo Probe. They think the sub-surface liquid ocean exists due to observations that the icy crust moves relatively freely, and is not attached to the mantle.

originally posted by: Gothmog
NASA does have a tendency to call all liquid , water. Makes for glorious headlines.Then they kinda back off later.
Time will tell.

Or the way I see it..

People interpret what NASA says and then complain when their expectations don't match reality.

Well, I for one am not disappointed. Science isn't entertainment. It doesn't need to be some reality shattering discovery to be important or tantalizing imho. When NASA or some other scientific organization announces "something big," I assume they mean in the context of what the findings might mean to their peers and fellow researchers, what it adds to the cumulative body of knowledge, etc. It's the media who then take what they say and boil it down to, "NASA teases major announcement!" *Flashing lights and fireworks heavily implied* :p

I've wanted us to send a mission to Europa since I was a lot younger and heard it might be a promising target to search for life. Hearing about visual confirmation of water vapor there, and imagining such a dynamic, in motion visual picture of Europa, is exciting to me.

Peace.

I'm pretty sure they've known about this fountain for a few years. Pretty cool either way. If it is indeed water, that's pretty interesting, but whats more interesting right now is why the water is spewing up in the first place.

originally posted by: ColaTesla
Shooting 125 miles from its surface, jeeze, Can you imagine the pressure involved to shoot a jet of water 125 miles? There goes any hope of finding life on europa....

Its gravity is 0.134 of Earth's so.....big eruptions.

Explain what this has to do with not being able to find life on Europa.

originally posted by: arcnaver
I'm pretty sure they've known about this fountain for a few years.

Yes, it's called the Mandela Effect. No, they haven't known about it for years.