One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - On Going Electro Shock Therapy in America

I have been working for a medical company that owns a few hospitals and many out patient clinics. I was working at their largets hospeital for two years before I transferred to a smaller hospital which also has an Adult Psych Unit, and well as a Youth Psych Unit and a Geriatric Psych Unit.

Part of my Job is to fill cases for the OR, OBY/GYN and Psych Units. I was trouble to see that they still practice Electro Shock Convulsion Treatments or therapy as it is called. Basically they hook electrodes to a patient and give their brains a good jolt.

I really thought we had come beyond that kind of barbaric treatment of mentally ill patients.

Has anyone here under gone such or know of any that have?

Maybe you all should think twice before checking into such a facility or checking in one of your family members into such. It would be very difficult to do so knowing that his sort of thing still goes on in America today.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Today's electro shock therapy is done under general anesthesia, and can greatly improve the lives of severely depressed individuals. It's nothing like the scene from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.

I worked with a handful of patients in the past who so looked forward to their treatments, and the change in their mood was palpable when they returned.

Read up on its use today. Mayo Clinic

a reply to: ChesterJohn

It's legal as long as the party involved agrees to it.


en.m.wikipedia.org...

Nurse ratchet!!!!!

a reply to: Atsbhct

yeah so does a few thousand mg of Gabapetin, or a few tokes of high grade Marijuana.

Maybe you are experienced, but from what I watched it was a very brutal on the patient even under sedation.

So I would beg to differ no matter what anyone says about it.

I had mild electro-shock physical therapy for an injured knee and I was not sedated. the whole time the shocks triggered neuro responses in my leg all against my brain and bodies will, by the end of the treatment, I had what might be termed severe trauma to being shocked and a severe migraine headache. I never went back to that physical therapist center again.

But once I watched how they did it and what took place to the patient, regardless of sedation it is still barbaric.

Involuntary convulsions do exactly what for the patient?

Calms them or birngs them out of depression?

I think there are better ways to calm a person or treat their depression than electroshock treatment.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Maybe you'd be better off just talking to patients who have actually experienced the treatment today. Watching a video might look brutal, but it's not just causing "involuntary convulsions".

Edit to add: Your opinion is your own, and you're obviously traumatized by your own experience, but I can't help but say that this post needlessly puts fear into anyone who might need this treatment. Some peoples conditions don't respond to medication, or a patient can't take medication for some reason. No one is administered EST without their consent. The dramatized video from a movie made in 1975 in no way correlates to today's treatment.

No one who is considering this treatment under advisement of their doctor should consider this OP when making a decision. Talk to people who have actually had this treatment.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I have been in the room when it is done and it does cause convulsions.

What do you think takes place when you are shocked by an electric current of any voltage?

muscles contract or convulse involuntarily.

Neurosciences has come further today than this type of therapy.

My son has a neurological disorder caused by a chromosomal defect. I would hate to think of anyone in years to come to try and treat him because they don't understand why he acts like a very small child. Imagine if a MRI trigger his epilepsy how much more and Electric Shock.

Is electro-convulsive therapy really needed today?

Hundreds per week are being treated this way and there is not real proof of benefit. I am not saying all do not benefit, but for those geriatric patients who are suffering from dementia or those Older Autistic patients, I doubt it.

I think most this healthcare is seeing it as a money making scam more than something that is beneficial in the long run.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I think you need to do more research before you form your opinion.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
I have been working for a medical company that owns a few hospitals and many out patient clinics. I was working at their largets hospeital for two years before I transferred to a smaller hospital which also has an Adult Psych Unit, and well as a Youth Psych Unit and a Geriatric Psych Unit.

Part of my Job is to fill cases for the OR, OBY/GYN and Psych Units. I was trouble to see that they still practice Electro Shock Convulsion Treatments or therapy as it is called. Basically they hook electrodes to a patient and give their brains a good jolt.

I really thought we had come beyond that kind of barbaric treatment of mentally ill patients.

Has anyone here under gone such or know of any that have?

Maybe you all should think twice before checking into such a facility or checking in one of your family members into such. It would be very difficult to do so knowing that his sort of thing still goes on in America today.

You are comparing a real life medical procedure, which you have not seen a video of in progress, to an old movie in which the procedure was being done in a way meant to evoke fear and revulsion because it fits the horrifying storyline of the screenplay.

Yes, that type of therapy is alive and well...but it is absolutely nothing like the scene in the movie. The patient is not awake, and it is completely voluntary. And it works very well for a lot of psychiatric patients.

The human brain is powered by electric impulses carried along nerve pathways. Every thought you have carries an electrical impulse with it. Every movement. Every itch or cramp or breath you take into your lungs, every squeeze of your heart, is possible because of electricity. In fact, that's one of the things that is so amazing about these vessels. We're about 85-90% water, powered by electricity.

And it is electricity that is used widely in the medical arena to restore proper function in these fleshy bags of water. Defibrillators are a common example. Neurosurgeons and chiropractors and cardiothoracic surgeons, pain specialists...even certain beauty and diet regimens all use electrical impulses to stimulate specific areas. Or, as in this case, redirect nerve impulses to areas where there is very little natural activity, resulting in improved function. Clinical depression, for instance, is caused by such an imbalance, and controlled electrical impulses can return the body to a state of homeostasis.

Try researching the subject on reputable medical information sites, such as the Mayo Clinic or national board of psychiatrists and/or neurologists. Movies are not an optimal basis for comparison.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I am also traumatized by what I saw first hand in those treatment rooms. Some of these people did exactly as you saw in the clip above. Arched backs, foaming mouths at the higher voltage (not amperes), while others just have mild twitching of hands and feet.

But let me tell you there is not enough support to be doing it to the volume of people this hospital is doing it.

It is not just my experience on a minute level but I see these patients everyday and some do not want to go through it again.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Mental confusion is a very common side effect directly after ECT treatment. I don't think you should be advising anyone to not trust this medical treatment, regardless of your trauma.

originally posted by: Atsbhct
No one is administered EST without their consent. The dramatized video from a movie made in 1975 in no way correlates to today's treatment.

Really? I wonder why 'consent' is required. I wonder why there's never a circumstance where EST can be administered without the patient's consent.

Thank God for this movie!!

a reply to: Snarl

Thank god for the novel, which exposed the state of psychiatric wards in the 50's and 60's. By the time the movie came out, standards had all ready changed.

The writer of the novel was high on '___' for a lot of his time working as an orderly at the psych ward that inspired the novel, so you can make your own decisions about how that, and his alleged involvement in project MK Ultra affected his experiences with patients.

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Mental confusion is a very common side effect directly after ECT treatment. I don't think you should be advising anyone to not trust this medical treatment, regardless of your trauma.

The medieval medical practices of: blood-letting, leeching, aggressive amputation, etc... were accepted by the luminaries of the day, because they achieved results. Today: we understand how they got those results, but see the practices as barbaric.
Soon: today's medical practices of ECT, surgery for anything and everything, excessive x-rays, chemo, radiation, massive prescription meds, and other "therapies", will be seen as just as barbaric.
Do they sometimes achieve results? Yes.
Are massive profits a part of the equation? Billions and billions.
Does shooting a dog cure it of nocturnal barking? Not for Fido, but for your ears, yeah.
Does loading-up an AHDD child with chemicals, allow the teacher to have more time for the rest of the class? Sure.

Just because results are achieved, doesn't mean it's right.
This screwed-up, hyped-up, performance and results minded patriarchal bullsnip society loves results.
Doesn't mean it's right.
Fried brains...sheesh!

Holding onto a spark plug wire on a small engine while someone pulls it over is a lot cheaper than going to electroshock treatment. They get paid a real lot to torture people.

Yes, they have been doing that all along and there is evidence it does help some people. There is also some evidence it harms some people too.

a reply to: Snarl

Consent is required for any invasive procedure. The only time psych patients are not given a choice is if they pose a threat to themselves or other people, such as someone who is suffering a psychotic episode and has suicidal ideations or has displayed violent tendencies.

Electroshock therapy was once very much like the movie portrays. Psychiatric institutions used to employ a lot of horrific methods on their patients...crazy people made excellent guinea pigs because no one would ever believe them due to their mental status. But that is not the case anymore, nor has it been for many decades. Now...that may be different in other countries; many things vary from place to place in the world regarding medical care.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Atsbhct

I am also traumatized by what I saw first hand in those treatment rooms. Some of these people did exactly as you saw in the clip above. Arched backs, foaming mouths at the higher voltage (not amperes), while others just have mild twitching of hands and feet.

But let me tell you there is not enough support to be doing it to the volume of people this hospital is doing it.

It is not just my experience on a minute level but I see these patients everyday and some do not want to go through it again.

Where are you residing that electroshock therapy is done in front of an audience, and in a regular treatment room? It must not be in the US. Psychiatric records are given special protection by HIPAA, so psychiatric treatment is not typically a spectator sport, and you stated in your OP that you are not a clinician; you're a file clerk or something right? So how is it that you were able to view these treatments?

Just for the record, I personally think you're fabricating all of these details, and if you're not, you violated patient privacy rights by viewing anything going on in those treatment rooms, which in the US is punishable by law, and if someone invited you in to watch, they're breaking the law as well.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

 so does a few thousand mg of Gabapetin, or a few tokes of high grade Marijuana. 

Gabapentin is not a treatment for depression or mania, so no, it would not benefit a person suffering those things one little bit. Nor is it given in thousands of milligrams at a time. Overdose of sedatives like that can be fatal.

It is an anti-seizure medication and a sedative, and is expressly advised against use in people suffering depression or mood changes, in plain English, by the manufacturer because sedatives are known to exacerbate clinical symptoms of depression, and even cause them. Seeing how the majority of ECT treatments are done on sufferers of clinical depression, giving them a depressant as an alternative treatment would be more than a little unwise.

A few tokes of marijuana is not sufficient treatment for severe clinical depression, either. Chronic, debilitating, clinical depression is caused by a deficiency or imbalance of one or more natural chemicals in the brain, such as serotonin. It is a condition that is physiological rather than psychological. People who choose this type of therapy do so because they've tried everything else and none of it worked. Burning a fatty is not going to help a person like that, and again, could actually exacerbate symptoms because weed is a CNS depressant and considered a sedative.

Some time ago, 2012 or so, I had 5 ECT's, all within about 10 days.

These took place on my 3rd visit to the mental unit. I was about 22 and had been experiencing a seasonal depression for about 6 years and, in that year, depression took a deep foothold in my mind and heart and life.

After about a year, 3 aforementioned hospital visits, a Molotov cocktail of pharmaceuticals, and hours upon hours of one-on-one counseling, I had seen little to no progress.

It was at this point that my physiatrist recommended ECT, my "last resort". A hasty decision, but at that point I didn't know better.

Each of 5 times (3 in patient, 2 out), I was put under with an anesthetic and a muscle relaxer to prevent uncontrollable muscle spasms. A mouth guard went into my mouth, and with a burn through my veins and into my heart, I disappeared in a room of about 3-5 doctors, sometimes lesser.

Upon waking I had some mild amnesia, but even to this day I remember quite clearly going under, waking, and things otherwise in the time vicinity of all these ECT's. I have noticed no long term negative effects, truth be told. In fact, I can notice NO retaining effect whatsoever.

3 months later I returned to the unit, but this time at a higher level clinic. My meds were shifted around, did some more therapy, and went home - disappointed, discouraged, and hopeless.

Since then I have experienced some very deep things, including a near suicide - and with that, a strange new perception and reality to things - even more so than my already seemingly fringe thoughts. But alas, my conditioned depression lasts to this day.

However I no longer use Pharma or medical anything of any kind. I eat a strict clean diet, I exercise regularly, and I try to spend as much time as I can in silence, listening to the subtleties.

I still have very deep break downs, usually due to very heavy painful contractions that pierce the heart, and still in my silence can see the proverbial shadows and demons that continue to follow me, cyclical, unwavering. In light of this, I also experience very deep moments of peace, however short lived they often are.

I guess I find my solace in accepting that nothing outside of me is really worth taking seriously. I mean nothing. Nothing is as great as the powers within and above. The conditions of life make it hard to see through the veil, but the pain that burdens my chest is always telling me that there is much more than this.

a reply to: Nothin

I so agree. Barbaric is the word-it's amazing to me how little our so-called professionals no nothing except popping you pills-really big pharma is running this show.

No-I've ever had shock therapy-but I've had recent serious health issues and received one after another of ridiculous, wateful-ridiculous dr appts.-and so have my friends and family.

It's my belief the medical industry in the whole is in crisis- the drs are stuck when it comes to dr appts-they stare much more at their computers than a face to you-the patient. They're stuck-

In the meantime-while in the waiting room-restaurants deliver huge bags of free lunches and who knows what else from the pharmaceutical reps. They may make you wait hours for your appts while they feast on all those delectable "free" meals.

I would never allow a family member or friend to be left in the hands of the so-called "professionals." They know pills-and apparently barbaric procedures.

Only the oldsters who looked at drs as their gods-really trust these "professionals."