NASA to Announce 'Surprising' Europa Discovery Monday

originally posted by: choocha

originally posted by: Gothmog
NASA" - We have received a message :
"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA
ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE
USE THEM TOGETHER
USE THEM IN PEACE"

(2001 a Space Odyssey )

Nope. This is from 2010: The Year We Make Contact, the sequel to 2001. Its not as groundbreaking as 2001, but its a decent enough flick and whenever Europa is brought up, I'm reminded about it.

I avebt warched either since first run. OOPS , I am old

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People..... NASA astrobiologist Chris McKay has been a propoenent of a mission to either Europa or Enceladus that could gather a sample of water for detailed analysis --

Chris has been a buddy of mine for almost 40 years. But I still suggested the Enceladus geyser-diving mission first:

www.nbcnews.com...-RpSK1vy-c

Cool! They should give you the first media look at the data...if you are still actively working in journalism (rather then enjoying a comfortable retirement) when such a mission takes place.

If they really do find that Europa's water is easily accessible via plumes and geysers similar to the water from Enceladus, then that is good news for those hoping for an exo-moon water return mission. Saturn & Enceladus area almost twice as far away from Earth as Jupiter & Europa are, and that vast distance to Enceladus is one of the factors that goes against an Enceladus water sample return mission.

Hopefully they can also confirm, or gather more evidence supporting, the presence of complex organic molecules on Europa, because that would be another big "pro" in support of a Europa water sample mission.

a reply to: Gothmog
Someone mentioned 'Europa Report' earlier in this thread.

I hadnt heard of it before, but decided to watch it last night. Great sci-fi flick! I highly recommend.

This is what REALLY happened...

I loved that sequel as well, however Europa has some big problems in that movie, as it is only 414,000 miles from the new Jupiter Sun, which would make it a crispy critter in short order. I wonder how they rationalized that when they wrote it in the script...

a reply to: JimOberg

Excited to hear what the announcement will be. Do you have an educated guess as to what they will be revealing?

NASA's twitter account has put out a 'spoiler' telling people that the announcement does not concern alien life.

This shouldn't really be a surprise, as we haven't explored Europa in anything like enough detail to be able to conclude anything along those lines.

I expect it will be more detail about the "subsurface ocean" aspect of NASA's investigations. Still exciting, in a geeky sort of way. But this doesn't mean alien life is off the menu - on the contrary, it might turn out to be a step closer, depending on what NASA has learned.

a reply to: audubon

I think it could be the water vapor above the surface detected by Hubble a few years ago. It could be that they discovered plumes or geysers (emanating from the oceans) that are the source of this vapor, which means that they may be able to send a future mission that could sample/analyze this water MUCH more easily that originally thought.

Without an easy way to obtain a sample of Europa's oceans, a future probe would need a way of getting through the ice, which could be kilometers think. A discovery such as this could mean there is an easy way.

a reply to: neoholographic

its always like that right around funding time... fiscal year ended for nasa. the next president next year needs to keep the slush fund going.


so yea. big announcement

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: neoholographic

its always like that right around funding time... fiscal year ended for nasa. the next president next year needs to keep the slush fund going.


so yea. big announcement

NASA holds these media briefings regularly -- maybe 8 or so per year -- to keep the public informed on things they are doing. They usually like each conference to key on one specific new finding or new discovery; in this case it will involve Hubble data regarding Europa.

And NASA never said "big announcement". That over-hype is usually done by people on social media and sites such as ATS.

For example, this (link below) is all NASA had to say about today's media conference. There was no hype nor talk of a "Big Announcement" in this press release. It was all very matter-of-fact:

www.nasa.gov...

By the way, as I mentioned above, I think the surprising activity they will discuss will involve geysers or plumes from Europa's ocean being sprayed into space or onto the surface, meaning it will be easier for future missions to analyze that water. The reason I say this is because Hubble data is involved, and Hubble has been recently studying water vapor above Europa's surface.

EDIT TO ADD:
In the long run, yeah - it's for funding purposes. What I mean is that NASA likes to keep the public interested in what they are doing, and keep them interested in potential future missions to places such as Europa, in order to give congress a reason to keep them funded. But I see no harm or malicious intent in that; in fact, I think it's good that they try to keep the public interested.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I think your deduction is almost certainly correct. This is something we know NASA is focussing on, and there has been a string of related announcements in the very recent past. It would be surprising if it proved to be something unrelated to this investigation. Still, it's fun to speculate!

From Space.com, Sept. 23, 2016 - Pluto's 'Heart' Hints at Deep, Underground Ocean.

Seems there is water everywhere. Mars, the moon, Pluto, and some announcement about Europa. We are not so special after all. Life is everywhere in universe if we stop being biased about what needs to pre-exist (conditions) for there to be life.

So bring it on NASA!

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
From Space.com, Sept. 23, 2016 - Pluto's 'Heart' Hints at Deep, Underground Ocean.

Seems there is water everywhere. Mars, the moon, Pluto, and some announcement about Europa. We are not so special after all. Life is everywhere in universe if we stop being biased about what needs to pre-exist (conditions) for there to be life.

So bring it on NASA!

Yeah, this whole thing about water being some uniquely terrestrial phenomenon has always struck me as complete nonsense, but it's an interesting illustration of exactly how careful scientists are not to stray beyond orthodoxy.

Hydrogen and oxygen are low on the periodic table, with hydrogen being the most abundant element in the universe (as in, it's around 2/3 of everything in the universe) and oxygen isn't far behind, being the third most abundant element in the universe. So the spontaneous creation of H20 isn't some trillion-to-one fluke, and since planets attract things it's far from surprising that water ends up on them.

It's like putting a cat and a mouse in a box for an hour, then re-opening the box an hour later and wondering why the mouse has disappeared and the cat is purring. There's a fine line between not knowing something and deliberately denying the obvious.

I'm old enough to remember the 'official line' being that the solar system contained the only planets in the universe. Even as a kid, that was so obviously baloney that I knew no-one really believed it.

I mean, it's right to proceed cautiously in scientific research, but all too often what happens is the equivalent of Columbus setting out from Spain in a rowing-boat, getting as far as he can in one afternoon, then turning back home to eat dinner, and telling everyone: "There is no such thing as America."

a reply to: audubon

They actually found free floating water in another galaxy! So, no, water is not some magical item that only exists on earth. The thinking now is that water came to earth and may not even be sourced from our own planet!

The deposits on Ceres (the bright spots) can only form in water. There is 3 mile high ice volcano there! So, it is not super rare out there in space. It just seems we were looking at things wrong.

There is caution and there is holding back information. If it is NASA funded it is our discovery but I know the need for being cautious, so I wait.

What's the possibility of one of the geysers blasting a fish into space.?

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
They actually found free floating water in another galaxy! So, no, water is not some magical item that only exists on earth. The thinking now is that water came to earth and may not even be sourced from our own planet!

Yeah, the current theory - if it deserves that name - is that Earth's water arrived via cometary impacts. There are around 1.5bn cubic kilometers of water in the oceans alone (never mind ice-caps, atmosphere, etc).

This is, frankly, such patent balderdash that it is difficult to accept that any scientist honestly believes it. Some might well have arrived via comet, but all 1.5bn cubic kms of it? Really?

a reply to: audubon
I would thnk early in the solar system there were lots of chunks of rock and material which impacted Earth. My understanding is all the planets formed from this material. This material, one way or another, faciliated water on this planet. I'm not sure about the chemistry, but I'm confident enough material could impact Earth early on.

You may be right, I don't know:
www.newscientist.com - Origin of Earth’s water traced back to the birth of our planet...
news.nationalgeographic.com - Mystery of Earth's Water Origin Solved...

I will add sometimes things seem like htey should go together. Sometimes things seem intuitive. Like if it looks like fire it'll burn, right? Isn't that what you were saying when you brought up the prevalence of hydrogen and oxygen? It makes sense I guess, since they're so common and thigns in this universe have hte habit of mixing... All intuitive and even straightforward. But not everything is always that way. Which is why science is so rigid. The human mind is anything but rigid. Give it an inch and it'll walk away with a mile--be damned! This is why we're so often wrong, even as we might be right enough to survive despite our shortcomings. But just surviving isn't going to get us anywhere fast. Science was a paradigm shift, requiring us to set aside our common sense for a moment and let the rigidity of experiment and observation speak for itself.

Hubble made its latest identification by studying Europa as it passed in front of Jupiter.

The telescope looked in ultraviolet wavelengths to see if the giant planet's light was in any way being absorbed by material emanating from the moon's surface.

Ten times Hubble looked and on three of those occasions it spied what appeared to be dark "fingers" on the edge of Europa.

What is more, the location for these prominences looks very similar to the region where Hubble two years ago detected an excess of oxygen and hydrogen - the component parts of water.

Taken together, the new work and the earlier observations make a compelling case that H20 is being hurled - if only sporadically - into space from cracks in Europa's surface.

The suggestion is that the jets reach several hundred kilometres in height before then falling back on to Europa.

BBC News.com, Sept. 26, 2016 - Europa moon 'spewing water jets'.
And...
Space.com (video) -Water Vapor Plumes On Europa Possibly Snapped By Hubble | Video

So Europa has been observed spewing water into space again. Nice to see Hubble be of use while we all wait for the James Webb Space Telescope to be launched next year. 3 out of 10 is very lucky odds for this to be caught!

A fish would have been a welcome sight! Even some bacteria. But it is NASA and they tweeted out "Not Aliens" so it was rather mundane in the end. The Pluto announcement almost stole the show!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
Hubble! I was watching a thing on nasaTV, or somewhere, and the guy had worked deeply on Hubble. Early on they had made a mistake with the lens or the focusing, so the images were blurry. He expressed anxiety because at the time he felt his career was destroyed. This guy worked with the team and devised a solution. When it was installed, the images became clear. The guy said Hubble was as big as the moon landing, for its scientific value.

Science was a paradigm shift, requiring us to set aside our common sense for a moment and let the rigidity of experiment and observation speak for itself.

"Common sense" and "rigidity of experiment" are not mutually exclusive!