NYPD can’t count cash they’ve seized because it would crash computers

A perfect excuse if one is a tad ignorant.

Records only exist digitally then?.

They be full of something, and it ain't good intent.

There is someone out there somewhere who has written the code/software, to tabulate the inflows of these agencies, these agencies have to do their own accounting and justify/reconcile budgets etc. like any other business.....

Or don't they keep track because they are awash with money to burn?.

Just May Be.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Then tell us what types of reports is the NYPD system designed to generate. Are they able to generate a report that ignores all other entries except for currency. Is that report generation able to determine if the currency is evidence or from civil forfeiture? If the system is unable to generate those specific reports what has to be done in order to do so? Would those additions / changes to the system work without interfering inn day to day operations of the system? Would those changes compromise the system in terms of accessing state and federal systems?

etc etc etc...

If you dont understand what im saying then maybe you should not assume to understand the problem.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Were a corporation to use such an excuse, the penalties would be incredibly stiff. Sarbanes Oxley set up a million hoops to ensure corporations accounted for their finances and holdings.

And we should let law enforcement not be held to any standard at all?

Then tell us what types of reports is the NYPD system designed to generate. Are they able to generate a report that ignores all other entries except for currency.

Right here is the problem....yes damn straight there should be an inventory for that money, you know the money that you are stealing .....

originally posted by: Xcathdra

The NYPD can account for its expenditures. The issue is compiling a report on cash seized as evidence / forfeiture. In this case the city council wants a complete report across the entire department and the system in place is not able to produce it.

You guys can think what you will and no amount of in-depth explanation from me is going to change peoples minds. Law Enforcement systems are not your standard database setup and its not as simple as some think when it comes to report generation.

Please, by all means, go as in depth as possible. I have the hardest of times believing that an agency this large has no properly structured databases that can be queried for this information. Let alone "crashing the system" by even attempting the query. Are you suggesting that when they enter evidence into their systems that they have no way to indicate the type of evidence? Do they just type what it is in plain text? If that's the case is there no standardized method or process they follow to prevent someone for entering data however they see fit? WoUlD iT Be POSSiblE to EntER mY REPOrT likE thiS withOUT repeRCussions?

I feel like the excuse they've provided is at the very least an insight into the incompetence of their computer systems and perhaps even alluding to the possibility that they're covering up a larger scheme to distribute ill-gotten funds without oversight.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I cannot cocieve of a situation where a database couldn't have a query built to provide reporting on anything contained within the data table.

You don't have 50k cops all doing data entry. You have 50k cops that will intermittently use the system.

It is, plain and simple, negligence on the part of NYPD. They have a responsibility to account for their inventories. The same inventories full of cash, drugs, and weapons.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Then tell us what types of reports is the NYPD system designed to generate. Are they able to generate a report that ignores all other entries except for currency.

Right here is the problem....yes damn straight there should be an inventory for that money, you know the money that you are stealing .....

Well no I am not stealing anything but thank you for proving my point about people talking about a situation they dont understand.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, no, its not negligence.

how much experience do you have dealing with law enforcement databases and how those systems work and interact with other programs?

PETS ***PDF LINK***

It's entirely possible that PETS, which allows for automating intake of evidence, may be so complex in its database configuration that producing the data sought by the bill would require major revisions to the multi-million dollar system. However, the NYPD has also invested heavily in an IBM DB2 data warehouse operation with the help of IBM Professional Services, so in theory they should be able to perform much of the analytics off-line without "crashing" the PETS system—with a little more consulting help.

Secondly they switched to the computerized system in 2012. Prior to that all invoices were hand written. Kind of hard to generate a report using the new system if the hand written invoices arent entered in.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Then tell us what types of reports is the NYPD system designed to generate. Are they able to generate a report that ignores all other entries except for currency.

Right here is the problem....yes damn straight there should be an inventory for that money, you know the money that you are stealing .....

Well no I am not stealing anything but thank you for proving my point about people talking about a situation they dont understand.

I understand just fine thanks...you steal money then are unable to account for it .....it is extremely unprofessional and more so criminal....if i do not balance my books for the tax department they fine me and cause me a whole lot of pain.....funny how the police department can claim negligence as a reasonable excuse ....lets face it the negligence goes far deeper than a simple inventory that cannot be audited...

a reply to: Xcathdra

I have fairly extensive experience working with databases in general. Knowing what is possible, for not a whole lot of money, is what guides my decision.

LEO doesn't have alien tech..its the same tech i know. If its ancient, again...negligence.

As it regards the handwritten invoices....again, negligence. We are a small corporation with a very tight budget. And we have no problem affording the software that turns a photo of an invoice into data for a data base. Managers simply take a picture of the invoice and upload it. The system identifies what is what, and applies the GL code to it, and then awaits a single button click approval by an AP clerk. If nothing else, there's 10 key entry of invoices. I do some of this each and every day. Sit for an hour and code/enter invoices to stay on top of my AP work (i don't have the snazzy software above because I don't think its worth the license fee for my small amount of accounts payable work).

I hear you on the challenges. And I reject those as lame excuses for negligence. In the private sector, this whole thing would be criminal. These excuses are not something that I am given to use....why would I accept it from someone else?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Xcathdra

I cannot cocieve of a situation where a database couldn't have a query built to provide reporting on anything contained within the data table.

You don't have 50k cops all doing data entry. You have 50k cops that will intermittently use the system.

It is, plain and simple, negligence on the part of NYPD. They have a responsibility to account for their inventories. The same inventories full of cash, drugs, and weapons.

I disagree only on the negligence part; I think you're letting them off (way) too easily on this front. It's not negligence, but rather willful deceit. The two are very different in my mind. One stems from neglect, the other from intentional misrepresentation for the purposes of potentially likely illegal behavior. The cops, of all people, should be "above" the law, not below it. This is wanton criminal behavior by the very people who are expected to uphold and enforce the law!! The NYPD is notoriously corrupt, and this is just yet another example.

The people should expect, and deserve, nothing less!

Anyone who defends this laughable behavior excuse for the lack of accountability is either on the payroll themselves, or off in right field chasing butterflies.

ETA...The fundamental underpinning of law is about "accountability" both personal and professional. Law enforcement is responsible for just that, enforcement. They should be above reproach. How can anyone, I mean anyone, accept that those who are responsible for enforcing laws are unable to follow those same laws themselves???

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

How do you get not following the law with regards to a report?

a reply to: Xcathdra

It's the law.

DP

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

How do you get not following the law with regards to a report?

I am not sure what the laws regarding police are, but in the rest of the world Sarbanes-Oxley pretty much lays it out: maintain accurate records of what you are doing, or get fined and go to prison. I spend about 15k a year on our GL audit so that we can prove out our SOX compliance.

www.investopedia.com...

Its why I call it negligence. Unless there is a law requiring audits of inventory for annual accounting audits, then it isn't criminal. But it should be...and hopefully this kind of stuff is a catalyst.

It SHOULD be accounted for, and there is no adequate excuse for it not being. The systems for doing it are readily available and fairly affordable. This lack of accountability within our public service is unconscionable.

Well they seem to have lots of money, maybe they could just buy better computers.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Or it could be "since our systems are real time systems, trying to generate a detailed report for 50k + employees / officers would cause the system to implode, taking it offline and not allowing any information in this area to be entered into the system".

The information is in the system.

It does not matter if it is real time
They can copy the relational database and run the queries on a separate system so they will not be effecting the live one.

Being IT, I am sure they make backups of the database as well, so the data is already there for offline queries on a separate system.

This is all BS to evade the theft of other peoples money

I'll bet you dollars to donuts they would have no problem generating a report of all the money owed to them via fines, tickets etc

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Or it could be "since our systems are real time systems, trying to generate a detailed report for 50k + employees / officers would cause the system to implode, taking it offline and not allowing any information in this area to be entered into the system".

The information is in the system.

It does not matter if it is real time
They can copy the relational database and run the queries on a separate system so they will not be effecting the live one.

Being IT, I am sure they make backups of the database as well, so the data is already there for offline queries on a separate system.

This is all BS to evade the theft of other peoples money

I'll bet you dollars to donuts they would have no problem generating a report of all the money owed to them via fines, tickets etc

PRECISELY!! And the numbers of tickets and monies owed via them is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE GREATER!!! (both in quantity AND dollars!!). Excellent point!

Incomprehensible!!

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Or it could be "since our systems are real time systems, trying to generate a detailed report for 50k + employees / officers would cause the system to implode, taking it offline and not allowing any information in this area to be entered into the system".

The information is in the system.

It does not matter if it is real time
They can copy the relational database and run the queries on a separate system so they will not be effecting the live one.

Being IT, I am sure they make backups of the database as well, so the data is already there for offline queries on a separate system.

This is all BS to evade the theft of other peoples money

I'll bet you dollars to donuts they would have no problem generating a report of all the money owed to them via fines, tickets etc

Well since your so familiar with how law enforcement programs work you should contact the NYPD and tell them what they are doing wrong and fix it for them.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Id start with scrapping the "law enforcement systems" for this, and simply buy an off the shelf data base system. Im sure they can find someone in NYC to configure it. And im sure they can find some funds in the CAF coffers to fund it. Put some of that stolen money to work for the people.