The Marriage License...

The Marriage License...

A simple piece of paper.... yet I hate it. I never understood the purpose. It wasn't until the middle ages that we felt the need to have one. Before that.. all we needed.. as humans, was permission from our parents to wed. And quite honestly, that was just out of respect for your parents..to ask they give their blessing. It is a shame that it has become such a regulated business...that you have to pay to love someone..to be with someone..to pledge yourself to them for the rest of your lives...it just seems wrong. It is the total opposite of what a loving union between two people should be.

I am very adamant about the fact that I don't want a marriage license..that it is not needed..and that paying for a piece of paper that is supposed to somehow prove my love for another cheapens the feelings I have for that person. It is such a private, intimate act..to join one soul to another.. I just believe that it should never be touched by the constraints of the state or government...that they should never have a say in who I choose to give my heart to. And I should never have to pay in order to love someone.

To say that a license helps to document family lineage is a farce for me. Here, in the states, we have social security numbers and birth certificates that carry out that very same function..when you get married, or change your name for any reason, you are required by law to change your name on the social security card. Birth certificates require you to name the mother and father of the child..there is really no reasonable need for you to have to document a union with your significant other through a marriage license..or is there?


The marriage license was first used as a means of segregation of races in the past, as a way to provide financial security/stability for the two families involved, and also became a money maker for the state. All of these reasons though.. all of them are the wrong reasons to enter a contract of the heart. In my mind...marriage is a combining of souls.. a private promise from one person to another. No license or degree of state involvement required when two hearts find their way to one another. It is supposed to be pure and giving, not regulated... one of the most beautiful gifts one person can give to one another.. but that is not how it is anymore...

The word license is derived from the Latin word Licentious, which means lacking restraint, ignoring societal standards, disregard for accepted rules. According to Black's Law Dictionary, the word license is defined as - the permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal." Now in other words, this means the government makes something that was lawful to do, illegal, so they can then tell you that if you pay the government money (which is a bribe), then they will turn their backs and give you a permit that allows you to break the law that they just said was illegal to do! So the question that people need to ask themselves, is why would it be illegal to marry without the State's permission? more

For all intents and purposes, marriage, in the eyes of the state, is a secular or civil contract between not two..but three entities..you, your spouse, and the state you marry in. You, having paid a fee and signed the marriage license, have by all rights and purposes just entered into a binding contract that obligates you to certain rules and regulations of the state, as well as certain obligations to your partner. It also allows the state to become involved within your personal affairs.

This is not all bad..as it allows them to take over the rearing of your children if you are unable to provide/ parent them yourselves. If, by chance, a child is being abused in some way/shape/form.. the marriage contract will/could be used to help validate the states right to rescue said child from the parents who are abusing him/her. Interestingly enough, there was a case where an authoritative figure was quoted as saying that both the marriage license and birth certificate allowed for them to intrude upon the individuals rights to parent their child(both binding agreements/contracts between the individual and the state??) But there are other laws/provisions in place that allows the state to take charge of a child for safety reasons which are more commonly used today.

In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates." Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications. more(No original citation)

In addition, it offers you some benefits if said contract should ever be broken. You now have rights to the splitting of marital assets and are protected against some acts that could have been detrimental to your emotional/financial well being. Child support or spousal support being two that come to mind. Basically any obligations that will continue to be obligations even after the breech in contract must still be fulfilled if they cannot be rectified at the time of separation.

But that is what a contract is really..if you look up the word in a law dictionary.. it is the promise or agreement to exchange things that benefit both parties. (simple terms) So, your love that you wish to convey to one another through the ceremonious act of a wedding has become no more than a statement of two peoples intentions to enter a contract. It has become less about love and more about money and obligations..which is very disheartening for me.

Continued...

From what I have read..once you go get the marriage license and pay the fee..you are , in the eyes of the state, entering into a business agreement with them and your significant other. You and your spouse are now entrepreneurs and through combining assets and making promises to one another with witnesses present..you have just entered into a legal binding contract. And a prenuptial agreement is no more than pre contract negotiations..or amendments to the original state written contract before consent of both parties is given.

The problem with this is..that with all contracts between two people, at the point of agreement and entering into one, you are already saying that you have a planned from the beginning for your marriage to fail. You have already thought about your exit strategy ...because a contract offers each party a way out, if certain conditions are not met.. Divorce.

Divorce does not really break the contract you originally entered into either. It is also an amendment( which crazy enough, can also be amended), just like a prenuptial. It does not end all of your obligations to one another...just some. For instance, you both are obligated to provide for any children you may have had while you were married until they become of legal age.. any debt incurred while married is still usually the responsibility of both parties until that debt has been paid off or unless one party agrees to absorb it in full.

This is not how I want my life with another to start out. This is not how I wish it to be.. I am a hopeless romantic, marriage should be only about the heart and the loving feelings I share with another..the beauty of two souls giving everything they are and can be..it should not be about all this other stuff... and yet it is.

And I find it quite perplexing and upsetting that something that is supposed to be so beautiful.. isn't anymore. ..and I am hoping that none of this info is true..none of what I wrote here, or found within the various websites I perused has any substance to it.

I was going to put this in rant, as it feels kind of like a rant to me..but decided to put it into this forum instead..fits better here..as that is really what I am talking about..what a marriage/relationship in my mind is supposed to be versus what some have proposed it to be..

Thanks for reading,
blend57

The marriage license is a tax, plain and simple but the cost of getting a license usually doesn't cover the cost of issuing a license any more.

On the other hand, the license guarantees certain things, i.e., you aren't marrying your first cousin, son or daughter and also that you are free of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, ie, syphilis was rampant in the U.S. for a while and that is why a blood test is required (in most states) to get a license.

Your concept is nice but the government really doesn't want you to have nice in your life.

atrollstalker

What is the cost incurred in issuing a certificate with a raised seal? The blood test I knew about..it was in the links provided..but I assumed you paid extra for that or it was included within the cost of getting the license..thus all the variances in pricing from state to state.. because some states do not require you to get a blood test anymore??

thanks,
blend57

It is a shame that it has become such a regulated business...that you have to pay to love someone..to be with someone..to pledge yourself to them for the rest of your lives...it just seems wrong. It is the total opposite of what a loving union between two people should be.

They couldn't call it a love license, nobody would buy it. Like everything else about your personal life the gubment needs to regulate (control) it, charge a fee and issue a license.

A marriage license also helps establish that you are a legal couple and that property and other benefits accrued to spouses can be taken advantage of... In a way, a marriage license is kind of like establishing a contract with your spouse.

Without marriage licenses, you have situations where every side piece, hoe, and live in boyfriend/girlfriend can suddenly claim they are your spouse. All it takes is for an untimely death and an estate to be divided up and you'd be surprised at who comes out of the woodwork trying to get a few pennies.

I generally don't like government being involved with every aspect of my life, but I see the benefit of having a legally recognized marriage when it comes to estates and legal system.

I got married last fall. I never really gave the license that much thought... Although, I'm kind of a traditional type of gal and I see the signing of the marriage license as a beautiful part of ceremony and tradition. And there is something about signing it that makes it all really real and there's something about knowing we are not only joined by love, but also by law that lends a certain air of finality and decorum to the ceremony. But that's just me. Maybe it's just not for everybody Nothing wrong with not wanting to do it, if that's your thing...

Marriage isn't just about you. It's about the community recognizing your union as valid. As you stated, it was once the case that you sought your parents' permission to marry. That's more or less the same thing. You no longer need your parents' permission. You can shack up if you want to. Society tends to give perks to married couples. Health benefits from employers, for example, are often extended to families. But the really BIG one is your estate. By getting "officially" married you have created a legal entity like a corporation. In "community property" states anything that comes into the marriage is jointly owned. It's not your separate property. (BTW, if you inherit from a parent that is usually separate.)

And when you die in the absence of a will, your spouse inherits. That's a big deal, especially if you have a large estate. It prevents someone from claiming he is your actual spouse from long ago and deserves the money. The "license" and more importantly, its legal registration at the courthouse, is proof that it is you who inherits, not someone else who claims to. Long ago we had church registers that served the same purpose, when everyone was REQUIRED to belong to the church.

So be careful when you start comparing to the "good old days." Would you rather that you were required to obtain your parents' permission and required to be married and registered at a church you were required to attend, or would you rather keep your parents and the church out of it? In those old days parents did not simply give permission; they often ARRANGED your marriage to the appropriate families without YOUR permission based on how it would enhnance their own place in society.

The state doesn't care who you marry. Personally, I like it that way.

My dad's in a VA nursing home, mom can't join him until she coughs up their marriage license. I know the state they were married in but not the county. I've never seen their license and mom isn't forthcoming. I suspect there's a problem with their marriage date and my brother's birth, who effing cares at this point.

A good friend of mine was living with her SO and they had one child. He was killed in a work accident, because they weren't married, it took some legal wrangling for her to finally receive full benefits 3 years later.

It's possible a marriage license might be needed to claim spousal benefits from insurance, social security, retirement/military funds etc. I imagine there's work arounds if you don't have one but having the license can make things easier. Do you really want to deal with the burden of proof right after losing a spouse?

I don't have a problem with our marriage license, it sits in a drawer with other important papers. Having that piece of paper hasn't had a negative effect on our marriage in the least.

originally posted by: atrollstalker
The marriage license is a tax, plain and simple but the cost of getting a license usually doesn't cover the cost of issuing a license any more.

On the other hand, the license guarantees certain things, i.e., you aren't marrying your first cousin, son or daughter and also that you are free of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, ie, syphilis was rampant in the U.S. for a while and that is why a blood test is required (in most states) to get a license.

Your concept is nice but the government really doesn't want you to have nice in your life.

Only one state still requires blood tests before marriage and only on females, and the purpose of that test is to determine immunity to rubella, or German measles. This is because chances are extremely high that females who are married will also at some point start a family, and the rubella virus can do horrific things to a human fetus, and can be fatal to the mother. It has absolutely nothing to do with venereal disease. That state is Montana.

It is also not empirical. If the female meets alternative requirements under the law, she can be granted exemption. They're not doing this to rule out syphilis or anything of the sort. They're doing it to prevent fetal demise, miscarriage, birth defects, etc., that can result from the mother contracting this highly contagious virus...rubella is frequently asymptomatic in adults.

As far as the family relation thing, there is no screening for that involved. The couple is simply certifying on the application that they are not any closer than third cousins. Mississippi stopped blood testing back in 2012, but they've always restricted familial marriages...again due to consideration for any offspring that might result and the effects of a limited gene pool over generations. And, in my opinion, religious and cultural stigmas played a part in it as well...but there is no direct proof of that.

Basically, they're taking the applicants at their word that they are not closely related enough to violate the law. My great grands were first cousins, for example, but certified that they were not, and because they were Native American and had no birth certificates, it made hiding that fact very simple. And even today, unless someone comes forward with irrefutable proof that people are lying about the thickness of their blood (which, ironically, is one of the main reasons for that term in the first place), they'll accept their word and that's that. A marriage license in no way guarantees anything...even blood tests can be inaccurate, and in the case of qualitative viral immunity titers, frequently are.

I am curious as to why you think that the cost of a license does not cover the cost of issuance by the state. It more than covers that cost, especially now that everything is done electronically. It is quick and cost effective without all the tedious triplicate forms churning their way to the State via snail mail waiting for signatures, etc...the dreaded Red Tape.

Many states have either reduced or removed the waiting period, too, which is completely advantageous...they bring in a lot more revenue a lot quicker the easier they make the process to complete. And this is true of all state licenses and permits; I'm not ever going to look forward to going to the DMV, but it has become a much faster process with the streamlined electronic system, definitely. And while their costs have gone down the fees have not, so really, they are making just that much more in revenue overall.

Governments rarely do anything that does not in some way directly benefit them...they're not going to pay clerks a salary and benefits to file state licenses for eight hours a day if they aren't profiting from it. And states such as this one, which have no state income tax, rely on license/permit fees for everything under the sun along with other things like property tax or registration fees to generate revenue.

You're right, it is basically a one-time taxation, and some States charge a pretty steep fee for that piece of paper...and other pieces of paper too. But the reasons for requiring licenses for different things are many; in some states, such as this one, a divorce will not be granted if there are minor children in the household until the parents have attended mandatory classes at a state certified facility, or other such requirements.

This is ostensibly for the well being of the kids, but the reality is that divorce often actually ends up costing the state significantly more than the small filing fees accrued for the permission to both begin and end a marriage, especially if child custody is involved. A large portion of single mothers/fathers on welfare are a direct result of divorces where the custodial parent is left essentially penniless with all the responsibilities while the other parent eschews child support and gets on with his or her life, completely free of the same.

This in turn means that the parent left in the lurch also has limited resources for legal representation to recover that support, and the State Attorney's office is typically so inundated that recovery through them is an excruciatingly slow process that is often not successful. So these parents have to rely on the State to supplement the household in order to care for their families...and that is not cheap, as we know.

Of course, we also know that pretty much everything pertaining to government is in some way driven by money...as you say, their focus is not on the happiness of the peasants. They've even managed to turn what should be a happy occasion into a business transaction where people are simply another license number on the books. It is very sad.

Eta: I forgot to add...there are some States that do require certain ethnic groups to have blood tests done for genetic disorders, such as sickle cell disease in black and Hispanic applicants, for example. Again, it's for medical reasons; sickle cell disease is an incurable, excruciatingly painful and debilitating condition that is often fatal by early adulthood.

Families at high risk need to be aware that any children they have could be born with this devastating disease, and a great number of those people opt not to have children at all rather than take that risk. All states require neonatal screening for multiple genetic disorders in newborns for the exact same reason, as well.

Marriage licence should be like any other licence and have an expiry date on it.

When you get married you can choose the length of time to expiry, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 40 years.

When it expires you can renew it or call it quits.

Would save a lot of trouble

I loved everything you wrote. I remember standing in line to apply for my marriage license and not even thinking about changing my last name. I was a business woman and saw no need to change my name and I had no idea how shocked and hurt my husband-to-be was when I answered no to changing my name. I deeply loved him and told the clerk that I would add his name-now I had four legal names.
Well, divorce and life experiences have definitely educated me on the importance of a legal name. It sure saves a lot of headaches down the road. Children, property, and many other legalities are so much easier with that little paper and common name.
Some things we don't think about down the road of life.
Bet he regrets our common name now, though and I am glad because it did and does make my life easier.

a reply to: DustbowlDebutante
Is that you? If so, you look very beautiful and happy. If not you then that person looks very beautiful and happy

a reply to: blend57
It's interesting to know of another woman that has feelings similar to mine.
Very very few of my close girlfriends views are in line with mine.
I never desired marriage and it was never a goal of mine.

I understand the benefits of the license and the 'contract'.
I never knew this:

Interestingly enough, there was a case where an authoritative figure was quoted as saying that both the marriage license and birth certificate allowed for them to intrude upon the individuals rights to parent their child(both binding agreements/contracts between the individual and the state??)

In my opinion it can make a situation, like the dissolution of the marriage, very tricky and both individuals must be smart and protect both the children and protect themselves financially.

For instance, you both are obligated to provide for any children you may have had while you were married until they become of legal age.. any debt incurred while married is still usually the responsibility of both parties until that debt has been paid off or unless one party agrees to absorb it in full.

It's sad that something one would think is so beautiful and honorable (?) can and often does become so ugly and soured once it is time to end it. The license is certainly no guarantee of sincerity between the parties nor does it guarantee any sort of 'till death do us part' vow being kept does it?
Seems a waste but until laws are changed I think it will continue to be a necessary document.

a reply to: blend57

This is a very well presented post. I have personally always viewed that piece of paper in a negative light myself. I was 17 years old the first time I got married, and under the law, my parents had to sign for me. It was merely a formality, but the vile creature I married saw it as a transfer of ownership...an irritating joke at first which became not such a joke in the end. He's someone else's problem now, so it matters not anymore, but I still don't like that piece of paper.

In many ways, it is definitely a sugar coated business contract that by its very nature automatically polarizes the relationship. And since divorce laws are written to compliment marriage laws and vice versa, such a contract implies that it is...at least on some level...a temporary arrangement.

It can change the entire dynamic of a relationship, too, because of that polarity...it is the precursor to the habit of keeping score against each other rather than working together as a team, which is one of the major causes of the dissolution of marriages. What was supposed to be the happy union of two people setting out to conquer the world together suddenly comes with conditions...and consequences.

In a world where anyone can go to Vegas on a Friday, get married, and be single again by Monday morning, things like this should seem mundane, but for those who do not embrace the drive-thru mentality, the seemingly insignificant changes in relationship rules that result from acquiring that piece of paper can be profound. Even more jarring is the realization that another piece of paper can just as easily revoke that license and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

It's about division of assets, too, especially in States where there are community property laws...in some places, simply living together and having both names on a lease or utilities for a certain time limit will result in a legal common-law marriage and can require a legal divorce to dissolve that marriage...no license necessary. And the sole reason for that is a fair distribution of assets acquired jointly during that length of time. Either way, it has zero to do with the sanctity of marriage anymore...if it ever actually did in the first place.

When you get a fishing license it is so you can go fishing and catch something. When you get a hunting license, it is so you can bag something. Most licenses give you the ability to do something you like to do that you can't do without a license.

So what the hell do we need a marriage license for. Seems like that one is not what it should be.

when your 'spouse' gets messed up and doctors need things done and signed by next of kin you will probably be wanting that cert then.

it was very important for me to be legally married.
husbands/wives get benefits that live in life partners do not.

originally posted by: rickymouse
When you get a fishing license it is so you can go fishing and catch something. When you get a hunting license, it is so you can bag something. Most licenses give you the ability to do something you like to do that you can't do without a license.

So what the hell do we need a marriage license for. Seems like that one is not what it should be.

Don't think of it as a "license." Think of it as a "certificate of authenticity." The issue isn't the piece of paper; it is the OFFICIAL RECORDING as a public record. It's like a trademark. If your trademark gets on the "Registered List" a (R) instead of a (TM) that mark is officially yours and no one can take it away from you. When you register a piece of writing as copyrighted (c), you own the right to make money off that writing. Registering events like this creates a public record that can be searched and PROVES such an event took place and was duly noted.

You don't really need a license to be married. Go have a ceremony. Have someone you like "officiate" and call yourself married. What the license does is officially record your marriage in the public record, which gives you rights you otherwise might not have, including parental rights, joint property rights, and rights of inheritance. Without this public recording you are on very shaky legal grounds.

For example, who owns that house you bought "with" your unmarried partner. Who actually owns that car that is in your spouse's name? If you're not careful, you DON'T, and the only way to establish your ownership is with a "palimony" type court suit. If your marriage had been recorded (via the license) there would have been no question about the issue: You would own half.

So go ahead and get offended that you "must" have a marriage license. Just shack up. Nobody cares. But a few years down the line you might realize that your attitude will come around and bite you in the butt.

I get what you're saying, but remember that a marriage isn't all hearts and flowers and rainbows and unicorns and two people dancing through meadows hand in hand and singing love songs every day, all day long, til the end of time. There's everyday life to deal with. There's the nuts and bolts of two people partnering up. We live in an organized society, and the marriage license just helps to keep things organized. Taxes, healthcare/hospitalization issues, estates, children, inheritances are just a few examples of when a marriage license (proof of marriage) is used.

Like another poster said, most of the time, the license is stuck in a file or drawer or box somewhere, and has nothing to do with the success or failure of the marriage. If there's true and lasting love there, the marriage license won't harm it in any way - and that proof of marriage can be quite helpful in many nuts and bolts situations.

a reply to: blend57

For $25, the marriage license is the most useful, valuable thing you can get from the government, dollar for dollar. Besides, anyone who is that against it can just personally say they're married and even change their name, while leaving off the legal protections/ramifications of state-recognized marriage.

In other words, you have every right to get married without paying for a license or having it affect anything legally to do with government, taxes, legal statuses, etc.

So far what I am gathering, the support from most of the proponents of the marriage license is based mainly on financial reasons and the advantages to or ease of separation that provides.
I agree but feel it shouldn't be that way.

I don't believe that should be the reason for getting a license and becoming married. It, IMO is almost giving in to the fact that there will be issues in the future such as division of property, child support and inheritances. That's not appealing to me.

Both individuals should be self sufficient and protected as you would with any legal contract that one chooses to enter into.
Be smart, don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Have your own basket.

I agree that at this moment in time it protects the children but that is the only valid reason I see for it.
Just my opinion.