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Venezuela - A Real Time History Lesson

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posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 09:59 PM
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The way I see it, Venezuela’s economic train wreck is a clear case of what happens when a "progressive" liberal socialist government turns crap sideways for their causes. To me, Venezuela is giving us all the warning signs we need to be paying attention to in the United States.

Admittedly, Venezuela has a very different history than the U.S., but I can still see many parallels. There are many factors involved in how they got into the mess their in now, but it seems to start when Chavez was in office and gained momentum with his successor Nicolás Maduro, who is following the Chavez play book to the letter.

February 4, 2007, Hugo Chavez was going to fight global warming by investing in energy conservation projects because the U.S. was destroying the planet.


They're destroying the world," Chavez said, citing melting glaciers in the Andes and predictions of rising sea levels. "The human race will be finished if we don't change the world capitalist system.

Chavez Takes Up Energy Conservation

Just like Obama Care that is falling apart and that solar power green scheme that went bankrupt, they use a liberal cause like the health of the population or the environment as an excuse to create over budget failures that end up backfiring on the people. Along with the failures and the inherent problems they cause, it seems that the only real purpose is that someone is making a lot of money on the backs of the citizens from these projects.

Venezuela owns the world’s third largest hydroelectric dam, producing 60% of that nation's power, overall, 74% of their power is generated by hydroelectric dams. In May 2009, Venezuela saw two causes for their energy shortages, low water levels due to drought and little investment into the infrastructure.

Venezuela’s electricity shortages

So the government goes hog wild on the hydro power projects and ignores the consequences, 74% hydro power is a green wet dream, but too bad they never invested in the infrastructure or considered what problems a drought could bring. I suspect bad planning along with mismanagement of funds and corruption were the real problems here.

By December 2011, more energy conservation policies were created because the government claimed that the shortages were a result of growing demand due to economic growth.


Venezuela is using public investment, foreign direct investment, public education, and the law in order to craft a sustainable solution to the rapidly growing demand for electricity that has resulted from economic growth and poverty reduction.

Venezuela: Building a Sustainable Electricity System

OK, the government puts the blame on demand, due to economic growth no less (huge lie IMO), and makes it the common citizen's problem to deal with through "conservation" programs.

Just before the presidential election in June 2012, here is something they really needed to pull off, Venezuela bans private gun ownership. Don’t feel bad though, they had a generous buy-back program just before the law went into effect.


Under the new law, only the army, police and certain groups like security companies will be able to buy arms from the state-owned weapons manufacturer and importer.

Venezuela bans private gun ownership

In 2013 Venezuela had its second major power outage. Then president, Nicolas Maduro, first stated the blackout was sabotage caused by his political opposition, then stated it was actually sabotaged by the United States.

Now when the chickens start to come home and roost, find a political enemy to blame or better yet some other country like the United States. A world power makes a really big bad boogie man to deflect from the actual source of the blame. Bet that they got tough with their conservation programs by this time too.


September 30, 2013 - Maduro announces on state-run VTV that he is expelling three U.S. diplomats. He claims they were involved in a widespread power outage earlier in the month. "Get out of Venezuela," he says, listing several names. "Yankee go home. Enough abuses already."

Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts

On October 03, 2013 . . .

Venezuela's Attorney General Luisa Ortega Díaz said on Thursday that people involved in hoarding of basic staples would face serious sanctions. In the regard, she called on prosecutors to seek their detention.

Attorney General urges prosecutors to seek detention of hoarders

When things get really out of hand and the propaganda doesn't matter any more, the government brings out the total lies, the exact opposite of the situation actually, and gives the call to "remain calm". The government created the provocations, caused the food shortages they were denying, and now were no longer just enforcing energy conservation laws but stealing food from the people who were prepared while characterizing them as "hoarders" and making them criminals.

What do you suppose is happened right now? How about make everyone slaves? Venezuela unveils a shocking "forced labor" law.

Jul 29, 2016

As Vice News reports, President Nicolás Maduro signed a new law last week that requires "all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to work in agricultural fields on demand. The new law mandates that citizens can be required to work in the agricultural sector for a period of 60 days which can be extended "if the circumstances require it.

From Socialist Utopia To Slave-Nation

Venezuela, there you have the socialist government M.O. in real time current history. Make a bunch of money by creating numerous problems under the guise of "save the environment" or what have you, and point fingers when crap goes south. After that, use propaganda and the threat of force, to make the problems the fault of the public who has to deal with it. Then, before things get too bad, ban private gun ownership.

Ultimately, when the crap really hits the fan, give out the call to "remain calm", deny everything with out right lies, then take whatever the people have for the "greater good" during this emergency. When it finally gets to this point it is too late for the people because all able bodied citizens will become forced slave labor. This is a current history lesson, just the past ten years, that we should all be learning from Venezuela in my opinion.
edit on 1-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Typos and some corrections

edit on 1-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: another correction




posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 10:00 PM
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So let’s review the steps that have lead to this situation.

1) The Venezuelan government creates over budget projects that fail and end up causing big problems for the people due to bad planning, mismanagement and corruption.

2) They blame the problems on political opponents and even the citizens. They make it the citizen's problem to deal with through draconian laws and other measures while doing little or nothing to address the real causes of these problems. Such measures include disarming the citizens to prevent the growing public unrest from becoming an armed revolt.

3) When the crap hits the fan, the government of Venezuela increases the propaganda and blames some foreign country (the U.S.A. no less) and continues to deflect from the real source of the blame. All the while they continue to do nothing to fix the problems.

4) When things get really out of hand and the propaganda no longer works, the government brings out more lies, and gives the call to "remain calm" while they confiscate food from the people by force and redistribute it to the government, military and police.

5) With out of control inflation, supply lines broken down, and food riots the daily routine for the common citizens, the Venezuelan government turns to forced labor laws to enslave the able bodied population.

Total collapse, violent revolution, martial law, intervention by foreign powers, or invasion is all that I can see as the end results that can be expected after this point. We would be fools IMO to not believe that could happen the same way here in the U.S.
edit on 1-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: correction



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The US gov wouldn't have any hand in this would they?



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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The problem with Venezuela is the same as when it was a more right wing capitalist state. To much dependence on oil prices and corruption. In both cases the Government spent money based on a certain projected rise in oil prices and in both cases that did not happen causing mass inclination, food shortages, riots. coup attempts etc. Toss in massive corruption you have a Capitalist system collapsing for the same reason the Socialist one is now.

Frankly is does not matter what type of government they have if they keep doing the same thing over and over. No real lesson hear unless your economy is a one trick pony hampered by corruption.



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The US gov wouldn't have any hand in this would they?


The US does its best to ignore everything about Venezuela. It has for a very long time because no matter who runs the show they still sell the US cheap oil.



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The US gov wouldn't have any hand in this would they?


They might have their hand in something, but it might just be copping a feel.



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:48 PM
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originally posted by: MrSpad
The problem with Venezuela is the same as when it was a more right wing capitalist state. To much dependence on oil prices and corruption. In both cases the Government spent money based on a certain projected rise in oil prices and in both cases that did not happen causing mass inclination, food shortages, riots. coup attempts etc. Toss in massive corruption you have a Capitalist system collapsing for the same reason the Socialist one is now.

Frankly is does not matter what type of government they have if they keep doing the same thing over and over. No real lesson hear unless your economy is a one trick pony hampered by corruption.


You seem to support the idea that the U.S. could end up like Venezuela, that is the history lesson more or less.



posted on Aug, 1 2016 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: liveandlearn

That's a racist and sexist question you just asked

Saying that a black president and a female secretary of state(at the time) would do something to another country or for the fact anything wrong.

Go stand in the corner with you white male privilege and don't come out until you blame a white male for Venezuela's problems.



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: thinline

Okay. this old lady will do just that. LOL



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 02:13 AM
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a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The US has long record of taking out anyone who disagrees with Washington. It would appear the reasons for this is that Americans doubt their own capacity to live in peace with other countries and they seem to believe that their own salvation lies in conquering the rest of the world.

One only has to watch the video "the confessions of an economic hitman" to see what lengths some people will go to, subjugate other countries. Once the effects of these 'interventions' begin to bite and eat into the country concerned, its understandable the country will turn to crap as intended.

This ultimately leads to the other undesirable and unwanted events listed in the OP.

According to the second edition of the "confessions of an economic hitman." the PTB of whom those who question their own ability to live in peace with other nations, the tactics used to take down small 2nd nd 3rd world nations are now being applied to first world countries.

Therefore a country like Venezuela is highly likely to be the target of such action. Even a so called 'friend' or is that vassal state like Australia is not immune from these forms of attacks form those who seem to believe that their own salvation lies in conquering the rest of the world.



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 06:48 AM
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After reading through the points in the 6 step review list in my second post above, it looks like the U.S. is about halfway through that list right now.

1) It seems obvious that the United States acquired a national debt of 19+ trillion through mismanagement and corruption. I don't see any real solutions coming out of Washington DC anytime soon.

2) Blaming the problems on political opponents, well have at look at the election politics lately. The federal government isn't reducing any laws, just pumping out more to stifle the economy and reduce our freedoms. There is only more talk about gun bans and eliminating the 2nd amendment, but it's not quite there yet.

3) Our government is in another cold war with Russia, plus we still have China and N. Korea along with the usual suspects in the war on terror to deflect blame. All the while our government does next to nothing to fix the domestic problems.

ETA:
A nation wide gun ban and confiscation is the next step before we start down through the rest of that list. If the timing is similar, then we only have about 3 to 5 years before we find we are slaves to our government.



edit on 2-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: correction

edit on 2-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added other comments



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 07:27 AM
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Liberalism and Conservatism are good in balance . Venezuela is a prime example (as well as Greece and other nations) when one overtakes the other.



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 08:05 AM
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Blah blah socialism blah blah communist blah blah slavery blah blah.

The economic or political model in operation in a country has very little to do with the outcome or future of that country.

What does matter is things like the money/power elite taking steps to further concentrate as much wealth into their own hands as possible and damn the consequences. Because if they have control over enough of the wealth of a country they can pretty much write their own ticket and any redress by the population at large (which is typically just people who want to live a decent - not extravagant, just decent - life) is very difficult.

And it bloody well can happen in the US, and it is well underway. It has nothing to do with left / right. It is due to the concentration of too much wealth into the hands of too few people.

That way lies madness whatever you want to call the system.



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: Open_Minded Skeptic
Blah blah socialism blah blah communist blah blah slavery blah blah.

The economic or political model in operation in a country has very little to do with the outcome or future of that country.

What does matter is things like the money/power elite taking steps to further concentrate as much wealth into their own hands as possible and damn the consequences. Because if they have control over enough of the wealth of a country they can pretty much write their own ticket and any redress by the population at large (which is typically just people who want to live a decent - not extravagant, just decent - life) is very difficult.

And it bloody well can happen in the US, and it is well underway. It has nothing to do with left / right. It is due to the concentration of too much wealth into the hands of too few people.

That way lies madness whatever you want to call the system.


I agree that greed and corruption are at the core of the problems that many nations like Venezuela face regardless of the leaning of their politics. However, I am using Venezuela and the U.S. in a comparison, the first a communist leaning socialist government and the last a capitalist republic heading in a socialist direction.

I would think that a purely capitalist society going down the same crapper would have similar steps leading to it's destruction. I'd like to see the outline for that scenario, but I'm looking at Venezuela in the past ten years and the direction that the United States is heading right now.



posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 08:47 AM
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Here is a link to an article about Venezuela's gun confiscation program that was presented in another ATS thread recently.

Venezuela crushes 2,000 guns in public, plans registry of bullets

Here is the ATS thread that talks about this latest gun grab down there.

Venezuela: Disarm Venezuelans (except the gangs and corrupt authorities who sell weapons to gangs)

Here is a quote from that article.


Interior Minister Nestor Reverol said the event marked the renewal of efforts to disarm Venezuelans, through a combination of seizures and a voluntary program to swap guns for electrical goods. Venezuela has the world's second highest murder rate and the street gangs that plague its poor neighborhoods have become increasingly heavily armed in recent years, at a time when a deep recession has reduced resources available to police. Gangs often get weapons from the police, either by stealing them or buying them from corrupt officers, experts say. With inflation of 185 percent in 2015 and a currency collapse, police salaries have fallen far behind rising prices creating more incentives for corruption.



posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: thinline

Great response, but I have to point out that if you're not a black female then in making those assertions, you're guilty of cultural appropriation and should be made to proceed to a re-education class to understand the effects of such a micro-aggression has on POC!

Oh, and to keep my post "on point", I'd just add that I've watched quite a few interviews with Venzuelans and I've had some Venezuelan friends and acquaintenances and can attest to this oberservation................the average Venezuellan just isn't quite......normal.
edit on 18-8-2016 by TonyS because: completeness



posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 12:58 PM
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Although it had stood out to me, I just gave this one part of the quote some thought, "guns for electrical goods". A couple of things that seem apparent to me is that it is really not a gun buy back in the sense that there is money exchanged, instead they barter with "electrical goods" in a country where people are starving and need basics like toilet paper. With an electric grid that experiences huge blackouts, what use are these "electrical goods"? They must be food replicators like on Star Trek.

ETA: After some more thought it should be noted that when a country hits 185% inflation and has nothing at the stores you need to buy, then barter becomes something even the government will do. Of course they is all kinds of black market activity that the cops and other officials will go along with due to the high rate of corruption. Barter and black markets sounds like the business to be in if you're living in Venezuela right now.
edit on 18-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added other comments

edit on 18-8-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo



posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

tying socialism and venezuela together is a little like saying the democrats are socialist, they aint.
the first rule of socialism would be to abolish all private companies.
which is why no true socialist experiment has ever, or will ever happen.
the closest the world saw was under nazi germany, were the nationalist ideals overrode the socialist ideas and a famously bad foreign policy ultimately threw a spanner in the works.
soviet russia, under the guise of communism was actually totalitarian rather than using the karl marx theorem.



posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: stinkelbaum

OK. What would you call the political system in Venezuela then? Socialist leaning? Because what ever you call it, it is something to look out for and avoid here in the states.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 07:34 AM
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From Wikipedia . . .


Venezuela has a dominant-party system, dominated by the United Socialist Party of Venezuela and where other numerous parties exist. The governing United Socialist Party of Venezuela (Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela, PSUV) was created in 2007, uniting a number of smaller parties supporting Hugo Chávez's Bolivarian Revolution with Chávez's Fifth Republic Movement. PSUV and its forerunners have held the Presidency and National Assembly since 1998. The Democratic Unity Roundtable (Mesa de la Unidad Democrática, MUD), created in 2008, unites much of the opposition (A New Era (UNT), Project Venezuela, Justice First, Movement for Socialism (Venezuela) and others).


Politics of Venezuela


In August 2007, as part of his push toward "21st Century Socialism," President Chavez proposed a series of constitutional reforms that would have, among other things, defined Venezuela as a socialist state and significantly weakened protections for private property. Voters rejected these proposals by a slim margin in a December 2007 referendum, but President Chavez decreed 26 new laws on July 31, 2008 that implemented some of the rejected constitutional reforms and weakened property rights. The National Assembly passed many of the most important reforms rejected in the referendum in December 2010. Among the most important were the five “popular power” laws intended to create a communal state and economy.


2012 Investment Climate Statement - Venezuela




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