Radiohead fans attacked in Istanbul for drinking alcohol during Ramadan.

a reply to: Parafitt

I live in America. Where we have the freedom to do pretty much what we like. Im blessed.

a reply to: SprocketUK

He is saying that while in those countries, foreigners have to abide by that country's laws.

For some reason though, people from those countries (Middle eastern) want to come in to western countries and force people in those countries to conform to the laws from the countries (Middle eastern) they are from rather than them (they would be the foreigners in this instance) abiding by the laws in the country they are in.

Perfect example of the double standard.

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: SprocketUK

He is saying that while in those countries, foreigners have to abide by that country's laws.

For some reason though, people from those countries (Middle eastern) want to come in to western countries and force people in those countries to conform to the laws from the countries (Middle eastern) they are from rather than them (they would be the foreigners in this instance) abiding by the laws in the country they are in.

Perfect example of the double standard.

Yeah, but Istanbul is in Turkey, the law allows the sale and consumption of alcohol all year round. They were abiding by the law. That was my point.

Confession, I have not read the article linked in the OP, I am only responding to the replies here to date.

May I ask the thread author what the laws are regarding the drinking of alcohol in Turkey during Ramadan? If, for example, it is illegal and the punishment is stoning or beating, then where is the surprise? As a visitor to another country, you must know, understand, and follow their sets of laws, or expect their brand of justice, should you not? Just as visitors the the United States are expected to follow our laws.

However, if this is not illegal, then the people that started the assault should be tried and punished according the the laws in that country.

So, faux outrage here is irrelevant if that act is illegal and the punishment is expected by everyone that understands the law.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thank you. By the way...I live and WORK every day in Dearborn Michigan...with all different middle easterners.

YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE WHAT IS SEE EVERYDAY HERE.

For the sake of my job and neighborhood...I wont go into details except its as suggested. For them here? Nothing changes except the benefits they receive from us.

a reply to: SprocketUK

IF they were abiding by the law...apparently it wasnt perceived that way by those doing the beating

a reply to: Krakatoa

Thank you for expressing my point completely. You did it far more eloquently than I did. Appreciated.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: SprocketUK

IF they were abiding by the law...apparently it wasnt perceived that way by those doing the beating

Think about what you are saying and think about what Ramadan is.

No food or drink to be consumed during daylight, ok? No FOOD or DRINK.

Who observes Ramadan? Muslims.

When are muslims allowed to drink alcohol? NEVER

So why get upset at non muslims drinking alcohol during Ramadan? They may just as well have a fit over them sitting down with kebabs in their hands.


You don't see Christians taking meat pies off people on Fridays. (Some might like to, but they don't)

a reply to: eriktheawful

Thank you. The violence here is appalling and un-necessary in the minds of free people everywhere. And now, I am done.

Thank you again for jumping in here.

Best, MS

a reply to: SprocketUK

Yeah, but Istanbul is in Turkey, the law allows the sale and consumption of alcohol all year round. They were abiding by the law. That was my point.

Ah, well then those who attacked the ones consuming alcohol are clearly at fault.



a reply to: mysterioustranger

For the sake of my job and neighborhood...I wont go into details except its as suggested. For them here? Nothing changes except the benefits they receive from us.

Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying that you are unable to voice your opinion on a matter of people trying to assert foreign standards within the United States due to fear of reprisal against you and your family?

I know Dearborn is one of the enclaves of Middle Eastern citizens and so such ideas are being fostered within that community, but I did not know it was having an effect upon others who do not follow their standards.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
Confession, I have not read the article linked in the OP, I am only responding to the replies here to date.

May I ask the thread author what the laws are regarding the drinking of alcohol in Turkey during Ramadan? If, for example, it is illegal and the punishment is stoning or beating, then where is the surprise? As a visitor to another country, you must know, understand, and follow their sets of laws, or expect their brand of justice, should you not? Just as visitors the the United States are expected to follow our laws.

However, if this is not illegal, then the people that started the assault should be tried and punished according the the laws in that country.

So, faux outrage here is irrelevant if that act is illegal and the punishment is expected by everyone that understands the law.

What laws allow the public to exact revenge or justice?

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I am done here, but feel the need to address your question. I will not respond past this post so as to prevent thread-drift.

You posed: "but I did not know it was having an effect upon others who do not follow their standards"..

The answer is yes. Citizens, police, fire, emergency responders, businesses and neighborhoods are subject to their interpretations and cultures.

Done. Thanks...MS

So much not clear in the video.

Do we know for sure the problem was alcohol? Can anyone accurately translate what was being said?

If the problem was alcohol, does the shop owner have the right to ban it from his premises?

Why was the person taking video of a very boring scene of people just sitting there? Seems a bit suspiciously "staged" to me.

What happened previous to the video? Were the people doing something they had already been told not to, but were doing anyway?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
So much not clear in the video.

Do we know for sure the problem was alcohol? Can anyone accurately translate what was being said?

If the problem was alcohol, does the shop owner have the right to ban it from his premises?

Why was the person taking video of a very boring scene of people just sitting there? Seems a bit suspiciously "staged" to me.

What happened previous to the video? Were the people doing something they had already been told not to, but were doing anyway?

Agreed. There is much to learn still. Now how about you respond to that which IS clear? The violence.

a reply to: Tempter

There are some countries that exact justice in that manner. All I am saying is that if THAT is the law there, then do not be surprised when it happens. If not, then it is illegal and those doing it should be charged accorind to THEIR laws, not ours.

If the problem is alcohol, why is it being sold in that country? Especially during Ramadan.
What if they were enjoying the music while eating a pulled pork, or bacon sandwich?
Would they still have been beaten?
Or enjoying a roast beef sandwich?

Even in another country, if alcohol is illegal during this time, it shouldn't be sold and the laws should be clear to tourists.
Ramadan cannot be forced on non Muslims.

a reply to: Tempter

Do we even know for sure that the man committing the violence is a devout Muslim?

I get that you are trying to use this video to prove that all Muslims are violent monsters, but.... we just don't have enough info to go on to prove anything, other than this guy was pissed as hell. We don't really know why or what happened beforehand to make him go off.

a reply to: SprocketUK

This post pretty much ends this whole discussion for me.

For one, the laws in Turkey is that alcohol can be sold and consumed if you are of age, these guys look of age.
Two, they probably aren't Muslim, or practicing Muslims, the guys who stormed in throwing chairs and such were over reacting and trying to enforce a law that had NOTHING to do with them drinking.

This is just another example of egotistical #$@hole's who has no respect for peoples decisions because it's not 'their way'.

Kill the drunks, how dare them desecrate their religion.

Radiohead fans attacked in Istanbul for drinking alcohol during Ramadan.

Maybe it was the Karma Police that got 'em.