Senator: We Need Gun Control Because ‘Due Process Is What’s Killing Us Right Now’

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: neo96

In light of this, can we call them Nazis now?

Fits.

When the shoe fits. One must admit.

Due Process Is What’s Killing Us Right Now

Political correction, political pandering and an almost irrational fear of addressing the root cause is what is killing America, an ineffective due process system is a consequence of big government ineptness.

It really is that simple.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: neo96

In light of this, can we call them Nazis now?

Fits.

When the shoe fits. One must admit.

Tailor-made, I believe!!

originally posted by: Tardacus
since when can the government take away your rights based merely on a suspicion that you might commit a crime at some point in the future? This will never hold up in court.

It wouldn't have before Scalia died and the age of Executive Order being whatever the President feels like without regard to legality.

Change the supreme court a bit and incite a cowering populace into willing away their rights, then it's the law of the land.

Next they'll need to get to work on correcting the social injustices. Confiscation of all that money. Nobody needs that much money or to own a big house, just like they didn't need to own a black semi-auto rifle with a scary pistol grip. Time to even things out. You didn't earn that money.

Once we're equal things will be great. You won't need free speech then, why would you, you'll have nothing to complain about. You'll also have no need to elect representatives because everything is great.

We can have a wonderful world where everything is perfect so there is no need for individual rights. All we need to do is start down the path by letting them take that first right. The rest can then safely topple one after the other.

a reply to: neo96

I wonder is this bloke knows what the rule of law is and means?

From

The central principles of the rule of law are that power must be used according to law, and that everyone should be equal before the law. The presumption of innocence has developed from equality before the law to prevent a person from being punished unless they are proven guilty according to a legal process. That legal process must treat all people equally according to the rights and freedoms they are entitled to under law.

The right to silence allows someone accused of a crime to avoid incriminating themselves. This is a fundamental principle of criminal law in Australia. The right to silence is also instrumental in ensuring the onus of proof remains with the prosecution, and that an accused does not have to prove their innocence.

A fundamental of the rule of law is fairness in legal processes and proceedings. People should have the right to see the evidence which is held against them, and have the ability to have their defence heard and considered by an independent and impartial court.

From: Rule of Law Institute of Australia.

Oh look, another windsock playing at politics.
Any way the wind blows......Joe.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
Yeah screw Rights and due process of the Law...

Let's just kick everyone while they're down.


I hate people like this.

Well...if our rights are going out the window and they don't respect the rule of law, how about we all take up arms and go and remove them from OUR SEATS!!!!! These idiots (and there are a lot of them) need to be bitch slapped by some real Americans BEFORE throwing them on a one-way, non-stop flight to their new home in the Middle East.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

What other freedoms and liberties, if given up, would reduce the threat of terrorist attacks and mass shootings?

Many, but there's also a big difference between all out gun confiscation and getting certain weapons off the streets.

originally posted by: neo96
Here is another take on that.

Like how some guy illegally invaded two countries to kill terrorists, and didn't care who got caught in the cross fire.

I know let's call Gun Control

Operation Enduring Social Justice.

Just because mistakes were made with foreign policy in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't try to correct those mistakes in the future.

This has absolutely nothing to do with "certain weapons". That is just the foot in the door the left need to do what they truly intend to do...make the sheep even less of a threat to their control over us. This is the plan...has always been the plan and as long as they hold any office, will continue to be the plan.

Destroying our Constitution is required for the left to satisfy their agenda.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Destroying our Constitution is required for the left to satisfy their agenda.

So what do you support? Should Mateen have been arrested for being suspicious? That's a violation of due process.

Should the people who might have suspected something be charged for not speaking up? That's a violation of your right to remain silent.

Maybe the expectation of security if you're allowing people free access to weapons is unreasonable?

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: neo96

Due process is what's killing us. You're taking his statement out of context. There is currently zero defense against a lone wolf attack because you cannot arrest a person for what they haven't yet done. Our only way around this is conspiracy charges, but lone wolves can't have conspiracy brought against them, because there's no agreement with another person.

Either we start with gun control or we accept that these sorts of attacks are unavoidable. Personally, I can understand that freedom carries risks, but many people can't and won't.

Ok but before we give up a constitutional right be it buy the thing getting buried in illegal laws and legislation or we actually have a Constitutional Convention, let us for Petes sake be more vigilant in our own protection, less encumbered by political correctness and for FU**S sake will the FBI respond when someone reports what looks like bad behavior, body armor, high capacity mags and when sale was refused guy talking in Arabic to what could have been his handler.

It looks like all this lack of action, stupidity and fail, fail, fail is almost purposefully to get us to the point where we start acting in such a way as is suggested here.

originally posted by: Logarock
Ok but before we give up a constitutional right be it buy the thing getting buried in illegal laws and legislation or we actually have a Constitutional Convention, let us for Petes sake be more vigilant in our own protection, less encumbered by political correctness and for FU**S sake will the FBI respond when someone reports what looks like bad behavior, body armor, high capacity mags and when sale was refused guy talking in Arabic to what could have been his handler.

Respond how? Body army and those magazines were purchased legally. Perhaps you agree that due process is what's killing us and you would like to arrest someone just incase, throwing away their due process?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Logarock
Ok but before we give up a constitutional right be it buy the thing getting buried in illegal laws and legislation or we actually have a Constitutional Convention, let us for Petes sake be more vigilant in our own protection, less encumbered by political correctness and for FU**S sake will the FBI respond when someone reports what looks like bad behavior, body armor, high capacity mags and when sale was refused guy talking in Arabic to what could have been his handler.

Respond how? Body army and those magazines were purchased legally. Perhaps you agree that due process is what's killing us and you would like to arrest someone just incase, throwing away their due process?

He should have been picked up, AGAIN, and questioned about why he needed that stuff.

Since he was already investigated twice and put on an FBI list then taken off. Ya Think!?

He should have been watched since that day. But no, Obama won't allow it and loretta lynch wouldn't do anything anyway.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Ok, and if he tells the FBI he needs the stuff because he wants to own it what's the FBI supposed to do? It's not illegal to purchase any of that stuff even if you're on a watchlist.

Do you want to give the government the power to remove your rights by putting you on a list rather than winning against you in court?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Destroying our Constitution is required for the left to satisfy their agenda.

So what do you support? Should Mateen have been arrested for being suspicious? That's a violation of due process.

Should the people who might have suspected something be charged for not speaking up? That's a violation of your right to remain silent.

Maybe the expectation of security if you're allowing people free access to weapons is unreasonable?

If he had been investigated as he should have been, without the PC crap and whatever restrictions were placed on the FBI...we likely wouldn't be talking about this at all. Part of the reason people don't want to "speak up" is our government calling anyone that speaks out about a Muslim a racist. You know...the same way they do about anyone who disagrees with Obama...racist. Anyone who wants to uphold the law and keep illegals out...racist. Etc.

The problem with this whole situation was a Muslim terrorist with multiple other problems. That is the problem that needs to be addressed to avoid this in the future. No suggested gun control would have stopped this person from doing exactly what they did. There wasn't even a gun used in the terrorist attack on 9/11 nor in Baltimore. Gun control has nothing at all to do with this anymore than a pressure cooker or planes being allowed to operate.

Fix the Muslim terrorist problem...the problem with them being able to enter the country (yes...I know he was a legal citizen) and track people's murderous and terrorist words and actions. Investigate them regardless of their race or religion, use the freakin NSA data they have on nearly every innocent American and target those that actually pose a danger. You see...as much as the ATS stopping a white granny in a wheelchair at the plane is a waste of time and effort, so is NOT watching the young, Muslim man. That is an easy fix.

In other words...when the description of the creature killing your chickens is red and furry with pointed ears and a fluffy tail...you're an idiot for wasting time and resources questioning the elephant.

a reply to: Aazadan

You can read my response to your early query above...but. No! There is no need to restrict the firearms if the problem is addressed. Instead, they are targeting the symptom. But in all honesty...that is their (government's) intent. If they really wanted to protect the people, why would they let refugees in when it is a known fact that they include ISIS? Why would they allow a porous border that could include ISIS terrorists coming in? The fact is that they don't care.

Regardless...guns are something the government doesn't want people to have. That is all the reason I need, to know that they are something we MUST have. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This is the equivalent of sending a child off to kindergarten who isn't yet potty trained.
Joe Manchin - I wonder if you are competent enough to even sweep a floor.
You have ZERO business being in Congress.

a reply to: Aazadan
Guns, an inanimate object is not the problem.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Every cliched statement regarding this applies.


Preemptive actions go against the Constitution and our laws.

Gun control is directly against the 2nd.

Learning history will show everyone what "gun control" is actually about.

Nobody will hear it....

They'll just shake their heads and wonder how it could happen....

This chump is trying to set precedent, and if precedent is set, we are all pretty much screwed....

A good remedy for due process would be for those big wheels to get spinning faster like every other portion of the economy.

We have those "computer thingies" now, maybe write an algorithm to replace those inefficient lawyers and judges and "git er done quicker"....

Why is this even still a discussion...

You do not under any circumstances throw due process out the window on a maybe... that leads to a police state.

You cannot use the legal system to stop crazy... its not possible, if you want to live in a free society certain risks are unavoidable.

On a personal note if you want to surrender your personal freedoms to maybe be safer... please move honestly just leave, we have enough problems without sacrificing our rights on a maybe.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If he had been investigated as he should have been, without the PC crap and whatever restrictions were placed on the FBI...we likely wouldn't be talking about this at all.

We would because the investigation would be powerless to do anything. Mateen didn't break any laws while preparing his attack. It's not illegal to buy the weapons he did, and he wasn't at the center of any criminal activity.

The only way an FBI investigation would have been able to go anywhere is if they violated due process.

Also, I'm not really sure what you're arguing. You want to protect the 2nd but your argument hinges on buying a gun being suspicious activity and grounds for removing other constitutional protections.