Orlando is robbing you of rational thought.

Greetings ATS,

In the last few days I have had to take a break from all social media because I simply can't stand the political trolling, personal attacks and nonsense that goes with any event like the one that has happened in Orlando. It's overwhelming and exhausting when you mix politics, ideals and emotions even within your own head much less when you meet up with somebody who has different ideals and wants to argue. I think a lot of us are experiencing that reality right now.

I am skeptical about these type of events because I will go on record and say that I believe that 9/11 and Sandy Hook were government manufactured false flag events and while I don't claim to know the level or scope of innocent fatalities, I know that the government had a hand in those events either way. I don't know about this event, it seems to me to have the hallmarks of a legitimate event as of now and if that is the case then my God, it is truly tragic and I could pretend to be heart broken but I won't lie and say I am. My sympathies go out to the families, friends and first responders that will be affected by these events but I didn't know any of the people that died and I don't see any difference in these lives and the thousands of lives that are lost across the globe daily by other things, starvation, drone strikes, terrorism, homicide, suicide and bee stings.

All loss of life is tragic but I can't shed tears for all of it, nobody can. The world and life in general is perilous, unsafe and for everyone on Earth, any moment could be your last. Everyone needs to take a good hard long look at the world right now because even as compared to 20 years ago, it's bat # crazy. A person, should they want to be balanced and cope with the state of the world today must learn to separate rational and productive thought from knee jerk emotion. In this sense, there is no middle ground, you can not pick and choose when you wan't to think rationally and when you want to act on emotion, you have to make a conscious choice to do one or the other and stick to it.

This instance in itself is incredibly complex because you seem to have a Muslim shooter who may or may not have been radicalized that had contact with the FBI who allegedly shot up a gay night club. This scenario seems so convenient for current events but alas, that may have been the effect the shooter was looking to evoke when planning it. Either way, there are some things we should analyze when considering this event.

Like Boston, there are some things people really need to take note of above and beyond the incident itself. In Boston, you had immediate and total marshal law invoked and had innocent American families ordered at gun point out of their homes. You had what appeared to be a completely militarized police force rolling through the streets of Boston indistinguishable from military forces in Iraq or Afghanistan. You found out that almost every place you go in a major city, you are being recorded in high def by...... Well, who knows but everything you do in any urban center these days is in full def color video, guaranteed.

In this particular case, being so close to the presidential election and so many air bags looking to posture, you see everyone individually as media or as groups trying to posture to spin this as something they warned against or something they could prevent in the future. The reality is, some people are crazy, there is no fixing crazy and nobody will be able to stop anything like this ever. Yes, somebody that has been contacted by the FBI for a legitimate reason should probably not be able to buy an AR-15 it's not going to stop the gas station employee down the road if he decides he wants to go on a rampage. There are 6 billion people on Earth, some of them are crazy, some of them rape, murder, torture, maim, hurt children, kick puppies and so on. Some people are sick and there is no way around that, there never will be and the goal is to have more good guys than bad.

Banning guns in America because of this incident is nonsensical, it won't change anything except to further limit personal freedoms and quicken our decent into authoritarian slavery (Yes I'm serious, take a good look at the last decade). Trading liberty for security has never worked out for any nation in the history of the world, nor has allowing the government to be the only people with firearms or weapons. Freedom, liberty, well......... They have a price and it's not free. Almost no one can purchase automatic weapons in America, and an automatic weapon was not used in this shooting, we have sweeping backgrounds checks that in this instance didn't work so a first question would be to ask why a Muslim who was into Islam and who has a father that was a radical Islam supporter who had been under watch by the FBI was allowed to purchase a firearm legally.

Can we at least agree to start by asking that question first? This conversation, if it is to be had, needs to be had on a "first things first" basis and if this incident is the catalyst that sparks that conversation then rationally, we need to ask the tough questions about exactly how this guy got a gun to begin with.

I hope to have a good exchange, it is a difficult topic and thanks for reading.

I will parrot your empathy. Its horrible, it is vile, but unfortunately I am unable to shed a tear for the dead. I can see their loss as a pointless waste, unneeded and tragic. But I see it from a numbers scale. 50 US people dead in a attack which doesn't happen as much as people say compared to car bombs and suicide bombing attacks across the world.

Do you cry for every life lost tragically?

I feel as if I will get a bit of stick for this

originally posted by: thekaboose
I will parrot your empathy. Its horrible, it is vile, but unfortunately I am unable to shed a tear for the dead. I can see their loss as a pointless waste, unneeded and tragic. But I see it from a numbers scale. 50 US people dead in a attack which doesn't happen as much as people say compared to car bombs and suicide bombing attacks across the world.

Do you cry for every life lost tragically?

I feel as if I will get a bit of stick for this

I cry for every life lost on this planet and I am dehydrated and haven't slept in hundreds of years. Hillary doesn't care about this at all, it is obvious, she cares about gun control and that is it. Ask her is she has armed body guards, and if gun control wen't into stricter action if she as POTUS would have a secret service armed as well. If so, she is not for gun control, just protection of her own life.

a reply to: Helious

Forreal.

It results in people ignoring the point of it all: some terrorist hurt AMERICANS. That's unacceptable. This isn't about political affiliations or our differences regarding sexuality. It has literally nothing to do with gun laws. This is just about Muslim extremists who like to kill gay people and are doing so regularly elsewhere in the world. The fact that it's now on our doorstep means that we have to get our grasses into gear and put a stop to this.

The Swedish aren't becoming terrorists and killing people--Muslims are. That's it. They're the only group. So yeah, enough with the boo hoo this never should have happened. It's insane. It happened. Now we have to deal with it. And I for one am fed up with this. Our president is doing NOTHING. He's literally the worst president we've ever had--and history will prove that, just you wait and see.

Personally I still look at the whole "Muslim" thing as holding water, I can say that as where I normally live in the UK (Currently in Asia) I am in a totally Muslim neighbourhood and the hatred for many "western" ideals and allowances are very real, esp from younger males who where born in the country. They are certainly listening to someone that is filling their head with hate. In saying that just look at the headlines from one Turkish news paper regarding these events.

metro.co.uk...

What type of mindset says this is ok??...

I believe that these underlying issues that Islam has regarding hatred for other cultures and religions have now come to the forefront and people that are of fairly low intelligence are acting on such messages since the longer term issues in the middle east by western influences have given them (in their minds) the OK to do such acts, that along with a western immigration process that allows mass movements from middle eastern countries has meant there are a far higher number of Muslim faith followers in western countries than ever before. It is a time bomb waiting for a spark.

Regarding the suspect being able to get a AR-15, well it just goes to show with all the covert operations and the trillions spent on world wide surveillance as with the 9/11 attacks it meant bugger and failed totally. Quite how the FBI can question someone twice and then he goes and does this is absurd. Just get ready for more of the same regarding social media and the constant erosion of freedoms that always come knocking at the door of the law abiding citizen when these events happen.


RA

If the only takeaway from the tragedy in Orlando is concern about gun rights or gun laws then we have been successfully stripped of our basic humanity.

That's about all I have to say on the issue.

a reply to: rukia

Our president is awful, without question. The problem is and what many don't see is that the president just before him was just as bad.

Radical Islam is a problem, gun violence is a problem, people thinking gay rights are different than civil rights are a problem.

The key is to understand the root of those problems and figuring out why they are so sharply pronounced at this time when all of them have been at issue for centuries. Understanding agendas is what is needed.

The only way to understand agendas is by using using critical thinking, something most people are incapable of in the face of this type of event and that of Sandy Hook, 9/11, Boston and the like.

Constitutional guarantees are what is at stake, it merits close and dutiful scrutiny and careful consideration.

Actually I apply quite a lot of rational thought to these events,for example I would have no problem holidaying in San Bernadino its not a major terror target and what happened there was a one off.Military bases such as Fort Hood and Orlando with Disney,Universal etc are definate terrorist targets which should have some sort of rapid response unit- neither did.If a terror incident breaks out in Orlando you've got a 3 hour wait and what you'll get is SWAT and not a specialist anti terror unit...scratch Orlando from my holiday list.

a reply to: Helious

I disagree. George W. Bush loves this country. I really like him, too. Yeah, he made mistakes--and he's just a President he doesn't have all the power--but Obama is a joke. He is useless. He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything other than himself and his stupid parties. Bush went home to work a couple times--the Obamas have taken a ton of random vacations. On our dime. Obama reminds me of Emperor Nero.

There's been no president worse than Obama. Name one. You can't. There's been none that would do the classless things that he does. He has no pride. He's a pushover. He has made this country more divisive than ever before.

Guns aren't going to be banned regardless. The NRA is too large of an interest group. That's like saying we can outlaw Big Tobacco lol

a reply to: rukia

George W. Bush loves this country

Was this sarcastic or were you actually serious?

a reply to: Helious

You might like to check this blokes blog where you will get more info on the Orlando shootings. it might pay to hit the blue "HERE" world to ensure the most recent page comes up. Seems his site gets hit a lot.

Link

a reply to: Azureblue

Interesting read. I will tell you one thing, nobody and I mean nobody takes 12 AR-15 rounds and lives. Nobody.

a reply to: rukia

George W. Bush loves this country. I really like him, too. Yeah, he made mistakes--and he's just a President he doesn't have all the power--but Obama is a joke. He is useless. He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything other than himself and his stupid parties.

Seriously... but holy brain cell batman this statement made my jaw drop...please tell me this is satire

a reply to: rukia

You are right because there is too much soul searching by the people who aren't muslim instead of the muslims themselves, whom are totally brainwashed from the time they learn to speak.

Their actions prove that these two diametrically opposed civilisations cannot be merged and need to be separated so we can all get on with our lives. Until the apologists face this fact more innocent people will die needlessly at their behest - never mind the terrorists.

Just saw on CNN that Omar Mateen was radicalized "Online". Does this mean that our internet in the USA will become restricted, filtered and monitored like it is in Cuba, North Korea, China, etc...?

Maybe someone will start a thread on this!

originally posted by: Helious
a reply to: Azureblue

Interesting read. I will tell you one thing, nobody and I mean nobody takes 12 AR-15 rounds and lives. Nobody.

good point. The only explanation I can think of is that they must have been only superficial wounds but if that was the case she may be up and walking around all at least sitting up but she may have been laying down the photo was taken. Mind you, not a very likely reality. thanks

a reply to: slider1982

To ignore the fact that this religion is filling it's followers with hate and violence against the west is an act of criminal negligence on the part of western governments. How many more mass shootings, suicide bombings, mercy killings, beheadings, stonings, raping, maiming, setting people on fire, throwing people off of buildings need to happen until the western world wakes-up and says enough is enough!

This radical Islamic mind-set is a scourge upon humanity. This is a religion that has proven to be violent time and time again. If we continue to ignore the 800lb gorilla in the room, western ideology and freedoms will be crushed.

originally posted by: rukia
Bush went home to work a couple times--the Obamas have taken a ton of random vacations. On our dime.

Funny how the Obama haters just post lies, when it is so easy to show they are telling silly made up stories!

www.politifact.com...

Vacation days CBS White House reporter Mark Knoller is the unofficial but widely trusted chronicler of data on presidential travels and other day-to-day White House goings-on, so we turned to his calculations. On Aug. 8, 2014, Knoller tweeted that Obama had taken 19 vacations totaling 125 days so far while in office. Those numbers have risen a bit due to the Martha’s Vineyard vacation, but that’s still many fewer than George W. Bush’s 65 combined trips to his Texas ranch and his parents’ home in Kennebunkport, Maine, which totaled 407 days at the same point in his presidency.

So Bush had taken more than 3 times more vacation days than Obama, yet you whine about Obama!

a reply to: carewemust

I saw somewhere that he had visited Saudi Arabia so I doubt you can blame the net - I expect it was where he filled his little head with a load of nonsense, but we should be careful to keep our net 'free' and not let the authorities have reason to pry further into our lives than is necessary.

The cause is islam and it shouldn't be forgotten, nothing else.

"Robbing" the general populace of rational thought implies that the general populace was capable of rational thought in the first place.

Your argument breaks down at that point.