Trumps Nod shows majority of Americans have no understanding of politics

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Before I get to your wonderful response, I would like to thank all of those who saw the point of my OP and agreed with me. Great responses. As for those who disagree, that is your right and I appreciate those who gave a civil and honest response.



The Lincoln quote is how I feel too, but SO with that, I do understand the plight of Metallicus and Bennyzilla. That is their disgust with those who are part of the political system but let's not blame the system and let's not elect a monkey for president just because it is different from those in power.

The first Plato quote nails the social media power of Trump and that ignorance of reality that you point out.

Anyway thanks for the great response and adding tons to my argument.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am not sure what you really mean by that, but I think we are in agreement.

Care to elaborate?

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Somewhat begging the question, namely, that Trump is represents a greatest threat to the republic, that since a majority can be wrong in its opinion that it necessarily will be wrong in its opinion (it also could be right in its opinion), and that a majority vote for Trump constitutes tyranny, which would necessarily lead to oppression of some sort.

So how is Trump the greatest threat to the republic, how is the majority wrong in its opinion, and how is a majority vote for Trump a tyranny of the masses?

a reply to: mc_squared

Trump just because I hate Hillary more. This coming from an Independent.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: mc_squared

The Republican voters did the best with what they have and the Democrats almost did the same with Bernie over Hilary.

The FBI will help the Democrats

The greatest threat to the republic is the national debt

originally posted by: hubrisinxs
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Before I get to your wonderful response, I would like to thank all of those who saw the point of my OP and agreed with me. Great responses. As for those who disagree, that is your right and I appreciate those who gave a civil and honest response.

The underlying theme here is that you're very happy with those who agree with you and call their responses great. As for you others, you have a right to be stupid. That's really your message, is it not, Hubris in Excess?

But there's another way of looking at it. You consider yourself extremely bright. You do not like the fact that Trump won so easily, so the only way to explain it is to claim everyone else is stupid. It couldn't be a misunderstanding on your part because, after all, you're so much smarter than average.

And that's pretty much the reaction of the GOP establishment originally. Trump is a buffoon. He can't possibly be serious. He'll quit very soon. Oh, he won a few. He's still a joke. Oh, NO! He's winning a lot. Don't you people understand that Trump is an idiot?! We have to stop him! If we spend millions and million calling him names the people will see the light! We did and it didn't work! He actually won! Good Lord, the people are stupid.

They just don't understand politics.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

As always, wonderful analysis and critique as well as terrific questions.

Allow me to answer your questions in reverse order,

How is a majority vote for Trump a tyranny of the masses?

Trump constantly promotes that as president he will enforce the will of the people and not listen to "fat-cat" politicians. You have a fine point in that the majority might be right in its opinions on his policies, but if he is elected not because he represents the most qualified person for the job, but instead as an agent for the will of the people then, while I am not saying this would be good or bad at this point, I am quite confident that this election will have radically different, though not totally surprising results. The main result being the end of representational government and the full acceptance that money talks.

How is the majority wrong in its opinion?

This is slightly more complex. I fear it is only 'wrong' if you disagree with it, so in that case, it lacks fairness. As in the will of the majority has become so extremist that it borders that of fascism. There are many historical examples of tyranny rising not as a result of some violent war, but instead because the will of the people demanded strict authoritarian control to restore a perceived loss of order.

How is Trump the greatest threat to the republic?

Plato showed how demagogic leaders like Trump could rise out of the populist movements to enforce laws that restricted the freedoms of minorities and protected the privilege of the majority. In America during the 1820-1850's southern planters were able to ride the political power of being the majority in politics, when this majority became threatened the south attempted to end the union and return to a confederacy of states. When Lincoln was elected he represented a change in the majority, but he effectively held the union together by winning the war. The same is true with Trump, who represents the a new Majority, but one that is effectively based on outdated ideas of colonial religious values.

I am sure you will have much to critique from this. I am most looking forward to our exchange, your intelligent responses are always welcome, regardless if they are in agreement with mine or not.

Im glad Trump isn't a POLITICian because those suck, look at Bernie who has accomplished nothing and never will and Hillary who is a real deal get it done politician, as long as someone is paying them they will keep blowing smoke up your butt. Trump doesn't need anyones money unlike Bernie and Hillary. Unlike Bernie and Hillary, Trump was successful, he took a small loan and multiplied it, lost some won most. Giving away free stuff isn't politics, its pandering.

It's this that frightens me. They're the ones who don't understand political systems. They're the useful idiots that are being purposefully trained and taught how to collapse the system and bring about the political revolution in this country toward and communitarian system, and I'll tell you whom they are not supporting - Donald Trump.

They are almost certainly out in force for the self-identified socialist.

The especially creepy part in this is how all those supposedly spontaneous student revolts are somehow chanting the same exact chant ... Hmmm, I wonder.

a reply to: ketsuko

While I think you correctly identified the extreme "politically correct" culture being self-identified as socialist, I am not sure that it represents a larger threat, currently.

Though I do have to admit that it muddies things up quite a bit.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Let's be plain. All of your arguments could be made about Obama.





Remember Obama Cash? And he won the popular vote too, so why wasn't that a tyranny of some kind born out of a populist movement, especially the first time?

The longer a democracy is in power the more freedom it creates? I think he had that backwards -

a reply to: mc_squared

Have you actually sat down and thought out what libertarians believe?

I'll take Trump over a libertarian anyday of the week.

I still am not seeing the threat to the country.

He is pro-constitution.
He is a CWP holder and supports the 2nd Amendment.
He wants to lower taxes for the poor and middle class.
He wants to bring in job growth and infrastructure
He want to repeal Obamacare and replace
He wants to remove certain government agencies that are not needed.
Does not want to engage lobbyists or special interest groups

The current political system was set in play in the late 1800's. It took away state rights and gave everything to the politicians. Woodrow Wilson sealed the deal and if Hillary is elected this country will be no more the way it was.

It is one thing to have an opinion but I am sorry, he is not the greatest threat to this nation. The greatest threat are the leeches who are voting to keep their free benefits on the back of the American worker.

The government is supposed to work for us and he is the only one that promotes that....

a reply to: hubrisinxs

I disagree. The idea that people do not understand politics because they are supporting Trump is fractured logic.

Government is meant to reflect the will of the majority. The safeguard against 'tyranny of the masses', as you put it, is the compartmentalized nature of the house and senate. Apart from governing their own issues, each state is endowed with two sets of elected officials meant to represent the will of their constituents on federal matters. This prevents tyranny of the masses as each state is segregated and tallied apart from the rest. If all, or at least a majority, of states agree on any given subject then it truly is a reflection of the will of the people and should be adhered to. The idea that the masses may be wrong is no worse, and probably better, than a select few self-appointed dictators being wrong. If the masses are wrong, then we can be wrong together of our own free will. Better than having someone impose their will upon us and be wrong too.

The truth of the Trump phenomenon is that obama was elected by promising hope and change. The list of things he promised was tailored to suit the wants and needs of the general public. And in the end it was nothing more than business as usual. The American people saw electing obama as a real and genuine effort to effect change - and they were denied. Now the idea of electing another obama crony is too distasteful to even consider. hillary should be in jail, not running for office. The flip-flop methodology of both parties has shown them to be two wings on the same bird. It doesn't matter which way they flap, they will only go in circles. We have had enough of that for a while...

So either pass the Dramamine or put someone in office who will try something different for a change.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Being tired of establishment candidates that are bought by those who control large sums of money is not the same as having and understanding of political systems.

But now you see Trump has no need for anyone's money so trying to buy him would be stupid, and as it has been said we are tired of those who can be bought.

So yes we do understand political systems.

Cause people want sound bits not long wind speeches on theory.

Wrong as that is all most presidential candidates are...Trump showed that many times during debates, so it seems we would rather have those long winded speeches over hearing the same old crap that all politicians spew during their run.

And the fact that Trump is where he is shows that.

a reply to: Metallicus

.you can't make chicken salad from chicken crap.

You could, but...

a reply to: hubrisinxs

I have no FB or TW and am completely glad Trump is the Republican nominee. Why?

The joy of watching their (Hillary &Trump) debating leaves me giddy!