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Jesus said; O men of little faith

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posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I like you but you are stuck

I will make a thread for you

Perhaps it will broaden your horizons




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: ChloeTTR
If you mean I am not going to move, you are right. When someone has reached his destination, moving away from it would be a retrograde motion.
"For me?" I trust you are aware of the ATS convention that threads are not aimed at individual members. If it is just a thread aimed at putting me right, I cannot guarantee to take any notice of it.

However, my natural reaction, under current conditions, to a comment like that coming out of the blue, is;
"Has he been banned again? Check. No, not yet banned- but hasn't posted for some time, so possibly post-banned. New name a possibility".
So we will be keeping an eye on your posts in order to check out that out.
This person has a style which is as easily recognisable as my handwriting, so the news about his new identity will always spread pretty quickly.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:29 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Banned or not

To a truly wise individual it should matter not

I have hope for you

Don't give up so easily
edit on 16-4-2016 by ChloeTTR because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:35 AM
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originally posted by: ChloeTTR
a reply to: DISRAELI

I like you but you are stuck

I will make a thread for you

Perhaps it will broaden your horizons


Why not let him be stuck then?

Would you care if someone told you the same thing... or tried to convince you of such things?

pointless man... that goes double for the thread




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: Sourcery
So the Disciples got to travel with Jesus and see his miracles first hand, yet still couldn't conjure up enough faith in him to be satisfactory? What hope then do people in the present day have, after reading a 2,000 year old book?


I would like to add that I am in no way attacking anyone. Serious question


Exactly what i was thinking. Also, the bible contains violent and oppressive passages. Jesus' story could have been made up from other extremely similair virgin birth savior stories before jesus' time.

I dont think faith is good. We need to find out the truth, not cling to ancient books with multiple interpretations. Books that condoned things slavery.

Blind faith is what has created so much fivision in the world.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

There's tons of them. Ever consider that the message wasn't for all? No sheep left behind but then you only need to get one to go with the flow so the rest may follow.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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The Sadducees are basically the Babylon Jews... people call them the Illuminati.

Jesus rejected the Talmud marriage laws, Gentile law and animal sacrifice, The Pharisees were the middle classes who were conned into killing Jesus by the upper class Sadducees.

The Sadducees ignored all the prophets and the Torah, because they had a good thing going with Rome, they were more interested in their own wealth rather than God.

Jesus is the third temple of Judaism... A real Jew is called a Christian.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


I see it as the effect of the Holy Spirit on the unconscious mind as well as the conscious mind.


Holy Spirit + knowledge = faith

or

faith (from the Holy Spirit) + knowledge = belief; trust in knowledge; confidence in knowledge

(The equation represents the mind; conception; soul; the spirit of translation [of will].)

Which one are you trying to say? Or are you saying something else? Also, what is an effect except the transformation/translation of will?



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep
Since I am only speculating about how the Holy Spirit works on us, I can't be more specific. I'm not going to try fitting it into a formula.
The point is that faith is essentially trust; we are told that the Holy Spirit can help us in that; I surmise that this is partly the effect of an influence which is not noticeable to the conscious mind. In other words, taking effect at the unconscious level of the mind. I suspect that God acts in this way more frequently than we can possibly realise, and that this is one aspect of the way that he runs the world.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

What do you think James meant by "faith without works is dead?" We must do work or God will remove our faith? Faith is such that it will die without work to renew it?

If everything depends solely on the Spirit or God's pleasure, why would Jesus say, "ye of little faith", as to scold his disciples, while also striving to perfect their faith through gospel?

Assuming doubt is a lack of trust in knowledge, and disbelief is to believe against, we can, through practice, try to convert our doubts and disbeliefs, yet it will be up to the Spirit who does the work or not? Yet still, without our own works, he definitely wont?

Edit: Oh yeah... And what do you think fasting does?
edit on 4/17/2016 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep
I didn't say it depends solely on what God does. A Calvinist would, but I'm not a Calvinist.
I said that the Holy Spirit can help, which is precisely what the father of the troubled child asked for; "Lord, I believe; help thou my unbelief".
God is doing something and we are doing something. I don't pretend to understand how the two things interact.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

If it is basically the one thing he wants, apart from love, I think we need to understand it.

No?


And the solely part was in respect to you saying it was an effect of the Spirit and where Paul said it was from God so no man should boast.
edit on 4/17/2016 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep
Why are you trying to over-complicate things?
He's asking for trust. So get on with trusting. What's to understand?



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Because it is seemingly trust that comes from God and not ourselves?

And works has something to do with it, as does fasting.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: Bleeeeep
And the solely part was in respect to you saying it was an effect of the Spirit and where Paul said it was from God so no man should boast.

What I'm going to do in answer to this is repost part of my first reply to you;

originally posted by: DISRAELI
At the same time, if your sense of confidence is not complete, you can make a conscious decision to rely on the other person anyway. As an act of will, you can may aside your doubts and act accordingly. So when Jesus said "All things are possible to him who believes", the troubled child's father cried out "I believe! Help thou my unbelief!" (Mark ch9 v24).
In the case of Christian faith, God can help in this, as others have been pointing out. I see it as the effect of the Holy Spirit on the unconscious mind as well as the conscious mind.

There is no "solely" in that. We are asked to do something, and we are told that God can help us.
So we are doing something, and God is doing something, in co-operation. This is more Melancthon than Calvin.

As far as I can tell, we agree, and you are trying to turn that agreement into an argument.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Is the agreement that neither of us understands?

Mostly I have been asking you questions.

I want to know how we can increase our faith, if faith is from God, and not ourselves (idk this), how work keeps faith from dying (idk this), how fasting relates to faith (idk this), and how faith works in us (I think it is a spirit or will that turns knowledge into belief / the Word into faith (trusted knowledge / Father), and faith into work (good works / Spirit). Idk for sure but I think it is definitely more than just trust.)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: Bleeeeep
I want to know how we can increase our faith, if faith is from God, and not ourselves

I have never said that faith is from God and NOT ourselves.
If you re-read what I have already re-posted, as part of my original reply to you, you will see me oberving THAT trust is a sense of confidence, THAT if we don't feel complete confidence we still have the conscious choice of disregarding our doubts and acting in trust anyway, and THAT we are told that God can help us.
So the ways we may increase our faith include
a) doing more to consciously set aside any doubts that we feel
b) asking God for that help we are promised


how work keeps faith from dying

This was best explained in my thread on the subject in the James series, which I can link.
Briefly, the connection is that James is talking about the kind of works which follow on from faith. They are "acted out" faith. (Paul is criticising something different. He is objecting to the attempted use of works as a substitute for faith)

how fasting relates to faith

I'm not sure that it does. If you are thinking of "This kind come not out but by fasting and prayer", that verse is not found in the best manuscripts and is left out in many modern translations, including the RSV. In other words, it may not be something which Jesus actually said.

and how faith works in us (I think it is a spirit or will that turns knowledge into belief

There is a very important distinction in John's gospel between believing IN, and believing THAT. (I will be looking at this in a few weeks' time). One is about trusting in a person, the other is believing in the truth of statements.
The key point is that believing IN comes first, because you will not believe THAT something is true until you believe IN the source of the information.
Jesus says in the discourses at the end that the Holy Spirit will teach them about Jesus, partly by bringing back to their memories the things Jesus tught himself. So in that sense the Holy Spirit brings information. And Paul in 1 Corinthians ch2 says that we have "the mind of Christ", because we have the Holy Spirit, who knows and can pass on "the deep things of God". But the Holy Spirit comes to us in the first place because it is "received through faith".

"Trust" in God is not the whole, but it is very much the starting point. As Hebrews observes, nobody will even want to obey God unless they first believe that he is there to be obeyed. Without a faith of some sort, nobody is going to get started.


edit on 17-4-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


“Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught [Peter], saying to him ‘O man of little faith, why did you doubt?’” Matthew ch14 v31

He did the same thing to a lot of us.
Thank you DISRAELI - Good teaching.



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