HB2, North Carolina mandate to hate homosexuals.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

It's intolerant to demand that people change their beliefs to suit your choices. It's intolerant to move someplace and demand that place change to suit the person arriving, when most living there are not in agreement.

What does belief or what right does belief have in denying Equal Treatment of a person who is born biologically variant?

Let's ban redheads from society because some belief says they are not acceptable.

We are not a theocracy. These beliefs do not belong in government of ALL the people.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

As for my opinion, NC did the right thing here. They are a sovereign state, as well, and thus have every right to decide things based on what the majority of people there want.

Yeah. The majority of North Carolina also thought that slavery was a good idea. I guess they could secede over it. Oh, wait.
In case you haven't got the news, the United States is a republic, not a democracy. In the United States, minorities are not supposed to be at the mercy of the majority.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

It's intolerant to demand that people change their beliefs to suit your choices. It's intolerant to move someplace and demand that place change to suit the person arriving, when most living there are not in agreement.

What does belief or what right does belief have in denying Equal Treatment of a person who is born biologically variant?

Let's ban redheads from society because some belief says they are not acceptable.

We are not a theocracy. These beliefs do not belong in government of ALL the people.

There you go, claiming a lot of things that were not said or even implied.

People are born XX or XY, female or male, with very few exceptions, and even with most of those, are still either male or female. Someone believing they are something else is a belief, not a biological fact. It's a belief, a thing of the mind. A small group with such belies doesn't have the right to demand everyone else agree with them. You want the right to not agree with my religious beliefs, and you have it, but you'd deny me the right to disagree with something you believe. That is hypocrisy. Refusing to acknowledge this, and tossing out claims no one made, about "banning people from society" or some nonsense about redheads, doesn't change the fact.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

As for my opinion, NC did the right thing here. They are a sovereign state, as well, and thus have every right to decide things based on what the majority of people there want.

Yeah. The majority of North Carolina also thought that slavery was a good idea. I guess they could secede over it. Oh, wait.
In case you haven't got the news, the United States is a republic, not a democracy. In the United States, minorities are not supposed to be at the mercy of the majority.

People with a mental issue that makes them unable to accept the sex they were born with ar not a minority. Claiming they are is silly.

If you want to discuss that war, make a thread for it.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

It's intolerant to demand that people change their beliefs to suit your choices. It's intolerant to move someplace and demand that place change to suit the person arriving, when most living there are not in agreement.

What does belief or what right does belief have in denying Equal Treatment of a person who is born biologically variant?

Let's ban redheads from society because some belief says they are not acceptable.

We are not a theocracy. These beliefs do not belong in government of ALL the people.

Ignorance never wins over knowledge.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

People with a mental issue that makes them unable to accept the sex they were born with ar not a minority.

Assuming you are correct, assuming that gender identity is a "mental issue" (I don't think that is the case, nor does the psychological profession), I suppose that means that everyone with any "mental issue" at all does not have the same rights as "normal" people? Are you completely "normal?"

If you want to discuss that war, make a thread for it.

What war?

If this topic has taught me anything it is that the LGBT army are bullies and that I continue to and will further support pro-discrimination policies.

originally posted by: Tempter
If this topic has taught me anything it is that the LGBT army are bullies and that I continue to and will further support pro-discrimination policies.

Really.

And the need for this latest bullying anti-LGBT law is what

Here's who is behind these "religious freedom" laws: Liberty Counselis a tax-exempt legal organization that specializes in evangelical Christian litigation. Liberty Counsel was founded in 1989 by its chairman, Mathew D. Staver, together with its president, Anita L. Staver, his wife. Both are attorneys. In October 2015, the Southern Poverty Law Center listed Liberty Counsel as a hate group.

a reply to: Phage

In case you haven't got the news, the United States is a republic, not a democracy. In the United States, minorities are not supposed to be at the mercy of the majority.

Way to misunderstand Phage, Democracy is mob rule. So basically the majority gets it's way by manner of it's strength in numbers. The Republic we elect representatives who the vote for us. If you never compromised on a candidate who you felt best represents your belief then you are a liar. [Or not a US citizen] On reading through this one thing that sticks in my head is right or wrong [As you the reader perceive it] NC elected these officials and all the out rage from those of us who do not live there is nothing more than ranting and raving. You don't like it the stay away from the state! More laws will not help either way, because lets face it for every time we add laws that try and balance the scales we get people that will twist them to their benefit. Gender and sex are both at play here. Just as hetero women don't want hetero men using the rest room they are in, do you think that a man who identifies as a woman and still is attracted to woman is going to be accepted with open arms using a woman's room? These days there are too many variations in gender identity. And let's face facts that how many actual perverts would take advantage of such laws? It's not the legit people with gender identity issues that are really the problem, it's the scum who would take advantage that are.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Freija

Im not equating trans people with disability. Only exploring the legal implications of what is happening today by exploring parallels.

Since transgendered people typically would fall under the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria.

I think it is a shame that we cannot speak of this in the context of mental illness. For one, mental illness still carries a stigma that is insulting. But beyond that, it is a misunderstanding of what psychology is seeking to achieve: a well adjusted happy person. Having a diagnosis of "Gender Dysphoria" doesn't mean you are ill. It means you don't like the gender you were assigned with (oversimplified). Treatments can range from counseling to medications to surgical interventions (reassignment).

You know the drill and it sounds like you got it. This diagnosis originally started out as transsexualism gaining prominence with the work of Dr. Harry Benjamin in 1966. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, WPATH, that publishes the universally accepted Standards of Care (SOC) was formerly named the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association. After that, the diagnosis was called Gender Dysphoria Syndrome then Gender Identity Disorder (GID). Now it is just gender dysphoria. Beyond the politics and classifications, transsexualism, GID and gender dysphoria are are all the same dang thing at the human level - just the way some people are by nature.

What is a mental illness? Homosexuality was considered a mental illness until it was de-pathologized in 1973. Most people, including gay people, don't think being gay is a mental illness. The DSM-V de-pathologized GID to gender dysphoria in much the same way with much of the same sociopolitical pressure to do so. Most trans people do not consider themselves to be mentally ill and in fact mental illness screening and evaluation is required sometimes for months before a person can even be prescribed hormones. That's not saying transgender people may not have other mental health problems caused by their gender dysphoria. Homelessness, poverty, familial and societal rejection, drug or alcohol dependence, survival sex work, depression, anxiety and suicide ideation or attempt are just a few and additional co-morbidities also often seen in children show up as eating disorders or self-harm such as cutting. Gender dysphoria is diagnosed today by the level of distress and pain and other problems that it causes. Not for being crazy for believing they are the wrong gender.

The problem is, homosexual people don't need medical care for being gay. Transgender people usually do for being transgender. It is kind of a double-edged sword. There has to be some element of "illness" or pathology toward being trans or there could be no treatment or health care coverage for transition related expenses that are absolutely medically necessary for some. The therapy works and is well proven and as noted, the triad of treatment's (hormones, transition and surgery) intent is to result in healthy, happy and well-adjusted people. Keep in mind, some trans people don't have, don't want or can't access medical treatment or surgeries.

So, with that being said....i would like to compare the notion of Gender Dysphoric patients seeking to amend legal designations

Let me stop there because I might still not be understanding? Amend what legal designations? That they are mentally ill or certifiably nuts and deserve special consideration as a disability and get a little blue and white handicapped placard to wear around their neck? That business have to accommodate them with a third bathroom?

The only "legal designations" I've ever heard trans people talk about are changing names and gender markers on identification and documents and they want to continue to use whatever hell bathroom they've always been using all these years without ever causing an incident. Transgender people don't want to be special, they just want to be equal. Not separate but equal, but equal as in equal.

...and BIID patients potentially using this to do the same. All the emotion aside, its possible that the courts will have to sort it all out at some point. And it might help provide a little clarity today, as it helps provide for a logical test.

I'm not getting what point you're trying to make about the issues or legal concerns of people with BIID and how that relates to those of being transgender? Logical test of what, exactly? You're going to have to help a clueless old lady out here. Transgender people wouldn't need special protections if they weren't discriminated against in the first place and where is all this coming from? Conservatives, Xtians and republicans and those with their self-designated moral superiority under the guise of "religious freedom".

But, on a side point....would it be offensive if the bathroom thing was worked out using ADA as the reason? That Gender Dysphoria creates a situations where a business would be reasonably expected to accomodate their "illness"?

I don't believe that would be a satisfactory solution any more than segregating bathrooms by race would be and if you had to say you were mentally ill or had a special pass to have access to a facility or service, would you? Again, transgender people want to be fully included in society, not excluded or ostracized or discriminated against for existing. There used to be others here that would be better able to explain this perspective in more depth or have a better understanding and I have to be somewhat delicate in my own delivery lest I say the wrong thing or offend anyone. I do know that parents with transgender kids in school and their kids don't want use special bathrooms or the wrong bathroom because it is exclusionary, singles them out and treats them different than all the other kids. Perhaps there's an element of being socially handicapped in being transgender but that comes from others, not from within.

The Transgenderism we see are Transvestites that are just hypersexualised perverts who have obvious mental problems that society needs to fix.

People are making decisions about Gender identity much later than the Age of formation... Somehow in their later lives they have a revelation that they are clinically the wrong gender through environmental factors.

The real issues need to be addressed, and those who suffer from gender identity around the age 4 or 5 need our help, but the majority and those freaks in Hollywood and the agenda by groups like the LGBT who are trying to convince people about the normalcy of transgenderism in family life the same way people are convinced into eating Bacon and Eggs.

People like Caitlyn Jenner are pure abominations, anyone making her an icon in the family are mentally impaired and a danger to society and our way of life, "Normal" life not a perverse one.

a reply to: Hex1an

Strange that the Conservatives and Republicans (to be fair - Fundies) think of the perverts. Why is that?

a reply to: Hex1an

originally posted by: Hex1an

The Transgenderism we see are Transvestites that are just hypersexualised perverts who have obvious mental problems that society needs to fix.

People are making decisions about Gender identity much later than the Age of formation... Somehow in their later lives they have a revelation that they are clinically the wrong gender through environmental factors.

And what makes you the arbiter of when somebody is permitted to feel comfortable in coming out as gender dysphoric?

The real issues need to be addressed, and those who suffer from gender identity around the age 4 or 5 need our help, but the majority and those freaks in Hollywood and the agenda by groups like the LGBT who are trying to convince people about the normalcy of transgenderism in family life the same way people are convinced into eating Bacon and Eggs.

People like Caitlyn Jenner are pure abominations, anyone making her an icon in the family are mentally impaired and a danger to society and our way of life, "Normal" life not a perverse one.

The language you are using, like 'freak', 'agenda', and 'abomination' shows that you have no understanding of the difficulties transgender people have, and I would argue that people like you with your closed, bigoted, and uninformed views are the real danger to our society.

originally posted by: hangedman13
Just as hetero women don't want hetero men using the rest room they are in, do you think that a man who identifies as a woman and still is attracted to woman is going to be accepted with open arms using a woman's room?

Oh noes! You mean lesbians aren't allowed to use the women's bathroom now too? I need to call my friends. I don't think they'll be happy.

This whole thing of "identification" or "I identify as ___" or identity politics in general is just such horsecrap and language and terminology that has come into use for a lack of a better way to explain things. Do you " identify" as a man or are you - just a man.

Go back to page 2 and look at the young children and students. Are they going to grow up and be men? Who do you think transgender girls and women are? Here's a tip that might help: transgender girls are not boys and transgender women are not men. Transgender women are sisters, daughters, wives and mothers to adoptive or step-children. If anything, they would be protective of another woman or a child in harm's way.

Do you really think a man would go through all the horrific challenge, pain, difficulty, expense and struggle of transitioning if they were a man? It is because they are not men which seems to be the myth spread by conservative, religious republicans organizations. Ever actually met or known a transgender person or child or is what you think you know about them something someone told you, an urban legend you heard, he-she tranny porn you watched or your own fantasies of dressing up and trying to sneak a peek somewhere?

If you've been instilled with the fear of a man dressing up to impersonate a woman or claiming to be a transgender woman then performing some sexual misconduct in a bathroom, guess what? In the 17 states and 255 cities that already allow transgender people to choose the best bathroom for themselves, nobody can find any evidence that this predatory trans person exists or that this is actually some kind of problem. Talk about your false flag, manufactured fear of a problem that doesn't exist. What next? Transgender women carry WMD's in their purse?

And let's face facts that how many actual perverts would take advantage of such laws?

According to a lot of different groups and law enforcement, the actual number is none or at least no more in places where transgender people are allowed in the bathroom that matches who they are.

It's not the legit people with gender identity issues that are really the problem, it's the scum who would take advantage that are.

You got the first part of that right but consider this, transgender men will now be forced to use the women's bathroom. Here are some transgender guys:



Why would a sexual predator even have to dress up as a woman? Just claim to be a transgender man which is an equally preposterous "trans people are predators" baloney.

Lewd and lascivious conduct, exhibitionism and doing pervy things is already against the law - everywhere.



Anti-Trans Bathroom Bills Have Nothing to Do With Privacy and Everything To Do With Fear and Hatred

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Freija

it seems you missed the point by a few thousand miles. The original reason everyone is so angry at NC's HB2, is that it removed the ability for municipalities to enact anti-LGBT laws, is that correct?

Well, no, actually people are pissed that discrimination has been legalized at the state level, period. Overriding a local municipalities ability to enact their own anti-DISCRIMINATION laws is really only secondary to what has people pissed. You're missing the point not only by miles but entirely.

Legalized discrimination at the state level, much like marriage equality, can and needs to be overridden at the federal level. You just can't wrap your head around this, can you?

apparently I can't wrap my head around this. Can you point out where or how this bill legalizes discrimination? I only saw where it made it not possible for local government to enact new laws regarding LGBT. I fully admit, it's possible I just don't get it. But at this point, well, I'm still not getting it.

Hiya LGE,

Happy new year and such.

Just another perspective:

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
People are born XX or XY, female or male, with very few exceptions, and even with most of those, are still either male or female.

Lets ignore that for a second.

Someone believing they are something else is a belief, not a biological fact.

The fact that someone can dress up and look different and then get their ass kicked is more the problem.

If someone said to you ... you can go through the door on the left and get your ass kicked, or you can go through door number two and this police officer might arrest you ... you would probably think these are not so great options.

Belief / mental illness / majority / minority it doesn't really matter. You can think what you want about a person but unless they're a threat to someone's safety they gotta go.

Is bizarre that we're living at a time where things are fairly safe by historical comparison to the rest of history but we're putting more restrictions on everything every year.

a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: cuckooold
a reply to: Hex1an

The language you are using, like 'freak', 'agenda', and 'abomination' shows that you have no understanding of the difficulties transgender people have, and I would argue that people like you with your closed, bigoted, and uninformed views are the real danger to our society.


They are the politest words I could think of...

Your name is: "cuckooold". Is this a play on the word: "cuckold"?

cuckold
ˈkʌk(ə)ld/

1.
the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.
"jokes in literature about elderly cuckolds and misers are rife"
verb
1.
(of a man) make (another man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife.
"in the novel Humberto cuckolds his employer"

originally posted by: Pinke
Belief / mental illness / majority / minority it doesn't really matter. You can think what you want about a person but unless they're a threat to someone's safety they gotta go.

But you're missing the point, for these people it's not even about sexual assaults that have not happened, it's not about the risks to their families that have never been there to begin with, this is about one group in a tribe of religious lunacy wanting to inflict their will on others. This is about hate, it's about ignorance, it's about a religious cult seeking any way it can to attack other people and place itself above all others.

The Conservative, Republican, Christian American is an absolute and unashamed hypocrite. They'll stand on their podium with their Bible in one hand and their Constitution in the other and cherry-pick statements to support their ideas.

They'll recite their constitution and scream about their freedom to be bigots to other people (while ignoring that whole part about no laws giving any religious group authority over others), then they'll open up their Bible and start screaming about the laws they need to enshrine their right to abuse other people and remove the rights of others when those rights others have are none of their business.

These people have a psychological problem, a pathological need to stamp their religious and moralistic notions onto everyone around them. It's some kind of weird disconnect in their brain rendering them incapable of rational thought. If they were rational, they would see that they're utter hypocrites and they would stop peaching their hypocrisy to the world and embarrassing themselves.

Just look at Network Dude, he's presented the same post in this thread over and over and over again, claiming that this law doesn't do what it clearly states, what everyone else can see, what massive corporations, the Federal government and anyone actually reading it and comprehending it can see. He absolutely refuses to knowledge what this law does even though it's been pointed out to him a hundred times already. Either he's specifically rejecting reality through choice, or he genuinely cannot comprehend what this law states.

That is not a healthy mind right there. Sorry, it's just not. But this is the kind of unhealthy mind we're dealing with when it comes to the Republicans, the Conservatives, the Christians passing such laws.

These people are so desperately ignorant they can't even understand the laws they themselves support, no wonder Conservative politics is in the mess it's in, no wonder they haven't evolved with the rest of the country. It seems to me they have a problem with basic thought processes and logic.

a reply to: cuckooold

Please explain your Name... You would educate yourself If you read my words, I'm sick of perverse activity from people who are just fascinated by educating our children the perversion of Family.

Your Handle is perverted.. what a disgrace to judge me.

I'm ashamed of the weakness of Christianity... That give you confidence to see or hear what you want.