Lets settle this! Would the UK have survived WW2 without the USA.

a reply to: acageyoucannotsee

It was a mixture, not just the Rothschild's whom Hitler then rubbed up the wrong way (and other's) but also he self funded to a large degree by seizing almost all the wealth of the Jew's and others that the Nazi's did not like in Germany, in part there invasion of other nation's was also driven by the need for more money to keep there treasury going though in the German speaking nation's and areas such as the Sudetenland and Austria they simply did as they had in Germany seizing the assets of those they did not want.

Oddly the NAZI's pro german expansion left the German speaking world far smaller after the war as German speaking community's in places like the Balkans suffered post war revenge and many massacres overlooked by history took place as these Ethnic and Cultural German's were systematically wiped out, this was another legacy of the NAZI's as the hate they had instilled was then vented on these community's many over a thousand years old but today now simply gone with no trace of them.

a reply to: crazyewok

If the British hadn't destroyed the French Fleet (+ French subsequently scuttling their remaining vessels) - how would you have seen the shift in naval power play out with repect to an invasion of Britian ?

a reply to: crazyewok

Survived yes then i was reading the question as if the UK was taking on Germany .

well.

it looks like its settled then.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Its been settled imo no USA no UK, the op should have asked would Israel be a country without UK?

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Its been settled imo no USA no UK, the op should have asked would Israel be a country without UK?

Not really.

Its split 50/50.

originally posted by: Raggedyman


Fortunately Russia and the US got involved, I don't think the US and allies could have defeated Germany without the help of Russia

That must be why they called the Normandy Landings the second front. Why Zhukov, not Patton, took Berlin. Why Churchill said Stalingrad and Kursk ripped the guts out of the German war machine.

This entire thread is pretty depressing. It's like the cold war never ended and the Hollywood McHistory version is the version of record.

TPTB say thank you.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

If you think about it, most German soldiers preferred the western front to the Russian front

Mind you the Yanks had their own western front that drained them.
Imagine what would have happened to Germany if the Japanese didn't get involved and the US went into Europe
Now that would have been a quick end to the Nazi regime

a reply to: Raggedyman

If the Japanese hadn't got involved, the US wouldn't either. Stalin wins.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

The Russians would have been smashed without US aid and arms

Germany could have concentrated on Russian factories instead of Britain, destroying its capacity to manufacture
Building a defense on their French coast cost Germany a fortune
I don't think Britain would invade Europe without the US

Stalin was furious that the allies took so long to invade, he was losing the war in Russia

Maybe?

a reply to: crazyewok

in that case, ill come back in 15 more pages. Surely it'll be settled by then.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

That must be why they called the Normandy Landings the second front. Why Zhukov, not Patton, took Berlin. Why Churchill said Stalingrad and Kursk ripped the guts out of the German war machine.

It was Mother Russia, not the Soviet Army, that defeated Germany. The Russian people are tough, and were able to survive cold and privation. The German war machine, like Napoleon's Grand Armee before it, was crushed by the land itself. Zhukov took Berlin only because Patton was ordered to let him take it for political reasons. (They probably didn't tell you that in your Great Patriotic War unit in school.)

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: crazyewok

in that case, ill come back in 15 more pages. Surely it'll be settled by then.

Where would be the fun in that

a reply to: DJW001

No
Fighting on two fronts, hitlers desire for ley lines ? and Stalingrad (Stalingrad) and the tenacity of Stalin to hold Stalingrad, stopped Germany.
Germans were tough, they could have gone around, they didn't

And yes I am sure most know Russia went into Berlin because of politics, why bring that up?

a reply to: Sublimecraft

PAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah.... sure..

Boy, fifteen pages of "What"! The German Military prepared for a big war in 1945. But they got it in 1939, way before they were ready, for it. Stalin kept Zhukov on the Eastern Front against the Japanese until Pearl Harbor. Their Eastern Army got to Moscow about the same day as the Nazis'. Pearl Harbor was an inside job. Its what's never been published, that denotes this. Soviet agents worked it up to get Zhukov freed up in Siberia, so his army could re-enforce Moscow. Stalin didn't give a hoot about how bad the Japanese might tear up the U.S.A. Our code breakers deep sixed the Japanese Navy at Midway, and got things turned around, much quicker than anyone thought possible.

Both Axis and Allied powers would have developed super weapons by 1948-50 when that war should have wound down. Japan never had enough resources, and Germany never got the chance to. Something else not widely known is that the Nazis "screwed up whatever they got their hands on, and by the end of the War, they had their fingers into everything". This quote came out at a Berkley College, cocktail party, about 1955, from a Luftwaffe General who defended Hamburg, Germany, against the American Air Corps. At that party he had an animated conversation with the same American General who directed the air attacks on Hamburg. Just as many Germans died there, in firestorms, as did in the better known, Great Dresden fire storm.
Think about this; In 1923 an American code breaker went rogue, and published a book. This book told how the U.S. had broken the Japanese codes in WWI. Something like with Snowden today, he was prosecuted, but the Germans never trusted the Japanese with their secret plans, on invading Russia. If the Japanese and the Germans had went after Stalin on two fronts, the Soviet Union would have gone down in about 1943-45. Then the German's Plan Zed would have defeated Great Britain. V-2's, jet fighters, and high speed Walther U-Boats would have done the Brits in, IMHO.

Just like with von Braun, the Russkies would have had to throw in with the Nazis, to stay out of the grasp of the Japanese. And the Japanese Empire would have taken in most of Asia, including Australia and India.

My best "Legends of anagrams", for both the first and second Pearl Harbors, is "Pearl Harbored", used as a verb, giving "Torpedoed too Early". In a manner of speaking, its both the history of WWII, and the 9-11, 2001 AD, attacks on our Eastern Seaboard.

A couple of days later, with each event, the aircraft carriers would have been anchored in the harbor, and much later, Ted Olsen's wife would have been in California, unable to warn anyone on Flight 93. In both attacks on America, about 48 hours made all of the difference.

youtu.be...

a reply to: carpooler

Do you have even the slightest cite for any of that, because as far as I am concerned your entire post is a load of dingoes kidneys. Pearl Harbour a Soviet put-up job??? As for Plan Z - nope, total honk.

You would probably have to crack open a few books to learn about this. Its pre Google. The Soviets had agents planted in both the Japanese High Command, and in our White House. They played the classic game of "let's you and him fight". They kept slanting the intel to make both parties, become more and more paranoid. We finally cut off their oil supply, and they, in turn, thanked FDR, by attacking Pearl Harbor, and the Philippines. Some old post WWII histories mention Plan Zed. The German General Staff knew a war was coming, but they prepared for one in 1945 at the earliest. If they had understood Chamberlain better, then they would have built no Bismarks, and a lot more King Tiger tanks. The steel used in the Bismark, alone, would have doubled or tripled their Tiger Tanks.
The emerging Walther Boat technology, was put to use by the East Germans after 1945, and is their edge in the Novel and later Hollywood Movie, "The Bedford Incident", starring the late Richard Widmark. You may dig deeper and find the American Hot Rodders' version called the "Turbonique". It also uses Hydrogen Peroxide and fuel oil to power a gas turbine, for a short length of time. A Walther Boat, also creates some Oxygen, for the crew, and can dash for a while, under water, without using batteries. The French tried to do this with a Steam Powered Submarine, but they got overrun, way too soon, early in the War. Trying to sneak around quietly, their Boiler turned the submerged hull into a bake oven. Even today, the reactor cooling pumps in our Nuclear Subs, continue making noise, which limits their stealthiness. Check out the comedic Movie, "Periscope Down", to see a theatrical version of this real life problem. By the time the Nazis had a few Walther Boats, Adm. Karl Donitz couldn't support them, and their breakthrough technology, at sea, so they stayed moored to docks along the well protected German Coasts.

As the fictional U.S.S. Bedford found out, one of these Peroxide Can subs, can give a Destroyer a real run for its money. If Adm. Donitz had fielded a hundred Walther Boats at the beginnings of Hostilities, in 1945-6, the U-Boat War would have stomped on the Brits, all across the Atlantic. There are historical rewrites coming out in recent T.V. documentaries, which blow away a lot of the Wartime propaganda, on our side. We basically bribed Gen. Rudolf Gehlen, the head of the Abwehr, to keep his big mouth shut, after the war, in order to preserve the post wartime careers of so many of our military and police, "heroes". Acting President Harry Truman had enough of Hoover, so he created the C.I.A. out of the wartime O.S.S. Hoover still managed to snag Central and South America, which led to the "Fair Play for Cuba" fraud, Lee Oswald, and only two days ago, Trump using Lying Ted's father's connection to Oswald, to blow Ted's candidacy out of the water. Even Trump said he was surprised at just how quickly this happened. The next "spit and polished shoes" to drop would have been the respective pairs on Mr. Gus Abrams, Mr. Harold Doyle, and Mr. John Gedney, the three hobos led away from the grassy knoll by a Dallas uniformed Policeman, minutes after Pres. Kennedy was murdered. Those "Bums", were part of a Peep Show, for a field exercise showing how the 1942 assassination of Obersturmbanfuhrer, " Col." Heydrich, in Prague, by British Intelligence, could be replicated. And then the bullets started flying again, for real! They were only there to observe a field trial, or their wardrobes' "Green Rooms", would have included tramps' shoes, as well as their upper garments.

By the end of the War, the Nazis had morphed into a diehard personality cult, around Hitler. Only when the thousand Waffen SS from the Sub Pens on the French Coast, broke bread inside Nuremberg's stockades, with their SS buddies who somehow had survived the Battle of Berlin, did this facade crumble into "Hitler Who" ??? It crumbled in one single night, and I know this, because my dad was one of the G.I.'s transporting those 1000 SS "hammer heads" from St. Navarre, by prison train, to Nuremberg. These guys were still at war, and doing everything to escape, and or, to kill their American guards. No one got to smell the roses in 1945, save for Uncle Joe Stalin, freeing up Zhukov, from the Manchurian Front, by fooling the Japanese into attacking us, instead of the Russians. Marshall Zhukov's army made it back to Moscow, at the same time the Nazis were banging on the doors, across the river.

Why Hitler wouldn't coordinate "Barbarossa" with the Japanese, rhymes with Snowden. Another rogue American code breaker, back about 1923, drove a wedge into the Axis Powers, who didn't even exist at that time. Unlike Snowden's little side trip, to Moscow, the first rogue clerk went to prison. But Snowden knows this story like the back of his hand. Forewarned is forearmed! That first code breaker wrote and published a book on how we broke the WWI Japanese Military codes. This led our President, Calvin Coolidge, to shut down Foggy Bottom's, "Black Room", saying that "Gentlemen don't read each other's mail". So there would be no mercy for that first rogue clerk. And that's exactly how these present day goons feel about Donald Trump. Its just that they were caught so flat footed, that they haven't been able to sink him yet. But not for any lack of trying. And there may well be a second "Bay of Pigs", to balance out the second "Pearl Harbor" on 9-11, 2001. And if Snowden isn't bad enough, then along comes "Gufficer", painting another Black Rooms' bullseye, on Sec'ty Clinton's backside.

Everything in this post, can be researched by burning some midnight oil. Or as Nostradamus said, 500 years ago, "to drink the smoke of the lamp". Trump vs. Cruze, and or Snowden vs. Gen. Hayden, there's a whole lot of Deja Vu going on right now. You won't hear much of this on the MSM, but its still all out there, lurking just under the surface.

UK would've lost. Their paratroopers got trapped. Hitler was about to take over USSR. UK refuse to allow their Canadian colony to have their own command like in WW1 early part of the war. Majority of the bombers were from US and Canada.
Canadians made majority of UK bombers. Without them UK would fail to bomb strategic points. M3 Lee change the entire game in Desert Rat fight. UK were actually losing to Rommel defense.