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originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
originally posted by: BubbaJoe
This question never get answered, But when was the last time you walked into a public toilet, and witnessed someone displaying their junk, male or female? In almost 56 years, I have never seen it.
I've witnessed it on only 2 occasions I can remember. Both were at clubs I played at in the '80s, and both involved men punctuating a point of their conversation with their johnson. Crude and unnecessary but vital to them at the time, I suppose.
originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: SaturnFX
There's every possible variation. There is no positive point at which it's one or the other. The hardest question for a midwife to answer is, "Is it a boy or a girl?", when the only truthful answer is, "You'll have to wait and see what this individual decides". The only reason this individual has to decide is to fit in with the notion that one or the other are the only choices. Being neither one or the other is reality for some. There will never be a settling point one way or the other.
noun
1.
a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.
How common is intersex? To answer this question in an uncontroversial way, you’d have to first get everyone to agree on what counts as intersex —and also to agree on what should count as strictly male or strictly female.
How small does a penis have to be before it counts as intersex? Do you count “sex chromosome” anomalies as intersex if there’s no apparent external sexual ambiguity? (Alice Dreger explores this question in greater depth in her book Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex.) Here’s what we do know: If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births.
But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.
Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female: one in 100 births.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Estimates of the Intersex population ride around 1%. (I'll provide a source if needed) Intersex means, physiologically sharing traits of both sexes.
And so now I say, whether it’s 1 out of 300 or 1 out of 30,000, it doesn’t really matter how big or small; what matters is that we recognize individuals as human beings deserving of recognition, support, and respect. ... People with intersex are not alone no matter how big or small the number, and that is the message that I think ISNA should send: that we don’t care about statistics, what we care about are people.
originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
That statistic lead me to these thoughts: how many people who've been a victim of sexual harassment/violence have adopted the descriptor "Transgender/Transneuteral" as a result of these acts? How many have been offered that path by psychiatrists/psychologists during treatment post incident?
But I believe there is a percentage that adopted the label as a direct result of professionals and others influencing their thought processes while vulnerable or at the confusing age of puberty.
originally posted by: SaturnFX
The term trans means transitioning
If a person, say a male, has no intention of transitioning to a female, then are they trans? If I put on a kilt, I am a man, but if I call it a dress, am I suddenly a woman?
I think the term should mean something. A man wearing a dress and lipstick but no plan on transition is just a feminine man.
am I wrong here?
I think before any procedure is done, a very big push for therapy should be given..let the person see if its truly transition they are wanting or if they are just suffering some disorder / depression and wanting to escape themself. a lot of trans suicide rates..people thinking that would fix their problems, having major regrets after when they realized it wasn't the issue for them...always explore why you think a way before making a huge...huge...huge modifcation to life.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Further, I'd be glad to see any statistic or research that proves that there is NO RELATIONSHIP between intersex people and people with differing gender identities.
originally posted by: Mousygretchen
Sex change operation's are faulty. There's really no similarity between a genetic woman's reproductive anatomy and a post-operative transwomans neovagina.
You seem certain that not one MHP, psychologist or psychiatrist has not misdiagnosed a patient based on what they presented at the time or came to an erroneous conclusion from lack of training. In attempting to get others input and understand different points of view, I never set out to be absurd, but then again, I wasn't shouting at others from a soapbox.
Uh, none? Being transgender is not a path "offered" by anyone. You can't make someone that isn't transgender be transgender. It is also NOT a sexual identity issue. Being transgender is a gender identity issue. Honestly I find your association or insinuation to be most absurd.
Ugh! I work hard to advocate for and support transgender children and their families and it saddens me there is so little information and too much misinformation and too many myths out there. Yes, I am passionate about this subject and do get carried away sometimes.
I appreciate your efforts to help others, and can see your passion in your post. This issue pushes the discussion into an uncomfortable zone for many, and it is a topic many avoid. Your post infused quite a bit of information, but if you intend to educate others and stimulate them "to keep an open mind and show some compassion", don't be condescending or offer an insincere apology for get carried away. People may get defensive and close their minds to what you have to offer.
I get that it is difficult, complicated and raises strong feelings but please try to keep an open mind and show come compassion.
originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
a reply to: Mousygretchen
Thank you! Your feedback is what I've been waiting for, and hopefully what your positions were on some of the things in the op. My only interaction prior to the article I read was conversations with my daughter, described in an earlier post. What I can tell you is as a parent, everything gets pushed aside except the unconditional love a father has for his daughter, and my desire for her happiness. I hope that you have people close to you that offer support in your path to the life you seek.
I may not understand fully the difficulties and obstacles you've faced, but hope you find peace and tranquility at the end of your path.
The post was relevant to the thread.
I've always been overly sensitive, even more so as a child. I'm a really thin skinned person. I don't use locker rooms or public bathrooms. I don't have the balls to use a women's bathroom most of the time
originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
I never set out to be absurd, but then again, I wasn't shouting at others from a soapbox.
That statistic lead me to these thoughts: how many people who've been a victim of sexual harassment/violence have adopted the descriptor "Transgender/Transneuteral" as a result of these acts? How many have been offered that path by psychiatrists/psychologists during treatment post incident?
Based on the percentages listed, it seems as if a small percentage committed to changing their sexual-identity have embraced the concept of transgenderism and acted on it, whereas the majority simply vocalize their stance.
don't be condescending or offer an insincere apology for get carried away. People may get defensive and close their minds to what you have to offer.
originally posted by: Freija
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Further, I'd be glad to see any statistic or research that proves that there is NO RELATIONSHIP between intersex people and people with differing gender identities.
Intersex people get pretty upset when you include them under the transgender umbrella even if they transition. That's enough proof for me.
Also, I know it has been revised but the the DSM-IV's definition of GID expressly excludes the diagnosis of those with a concurrent physical intersex condition.
Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.
I'm an intersexual, and I'm also transgendered. This puts me in a peculiar place with regard to community lines ... straddling the border between the transgender community (at best in its adolescence) and the intersex community (still in its infancy). I have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, I was raised as a girl, and I have now lived five years as a man. When I took on the task of Intersex Liaison for a major American transgender organization, I figured that I was being assigned to heal the split between these two communities.
A significant minority of people with intersex conditions identify as intersex--and some identify as transgender.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
2) even though the DSM IV was published in 1994 (20 years ago) you prefer to use that reference over the updated version for some reason? Perhaps because in 1994 any gender differences such as GID or GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER were treated as pathology? Link
So, you're saying you prefer to consider Trans* folk as diseased or disordered? No thanks.
Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.
I'm an intersexual, and I'm also transgendered. This puts me in a peculiar place with regard to community lines ... straddling the border between the transgender community (at best in its adolescence) and the intersex community (still in its infancy). I have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, I was raised as a girl, and I have now lived five years as a man. When I took on the task of Intersex Liaison for a major American transgender organization, I figured that I was being assigned to heal the split between these two communities.
Perhaps a little less absolutism in your outlook and insistence on your own unique understandings is in order.