It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Straw Man argument? Damn and to think I went out of my way to be succinct in my assessment. What part of my assessment was incorrect?
My assessment was not built solely on your first post but a combination of all of your posts. You state there is a correlation between "jesusland" and red states. This show how little you know about red states. If you had said that there was correlation between the South and Christian Fundamentalism. I would have agreed. The problem with your assessment was that it was a Hasty Generalization combined with Confusing Cause and Effect. It is one big fallacy.
And as far as you not posting articles...well that is fine. If you want to be intellectually lazy then so be it. But I will not do your homework. If you propose something, prove it.
I never thought that to begin with. This was just tacked on to the end of your reply, so I responded.
You started this thread. You knew what would happen, so why do you try and dodge the debate? Or is Appeal to Ridicule all the quivers all you have left?
Originally posted by knights5629
What statistics do you have that states that the "red" states are lagging behind the "blue" states? Are we lagging behind in technology, economy, population, etc...?
So your premise is that Churches and Religion keep people from achieving their true potential in a society?
What are you saying? Its obvious that you and I disagree. I am not a redneck, etc...., and I have always lived in the South.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I do find misrepresentation and petty quibbling a bore though - and yes, knowing some of those on the right here, it was fully expected to happen.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- I disagree. I believe there is a correlation between not only the south and fundamentalism but the red states generally.
It isn't absolute and it's not the black and white you are trying to claim I am saying (despite my repeated specific statements to the contrary).
Check out the theocracywatch link. They're not there yet but the religious right are making inroads into the republican party across the board; they are engaged in trying to take over the party IMHO.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I'm saying the more fundamentalist the area the less well off it is.......and that isn't something that is just confined to Muslims it's there for all to see in the USA itself.
&
Actually I was thinking that the more 'Christian fundamentalist' an area the less better off the area.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You hold your view and I hold mine. You are not alone in seeing things the way you do and neither am I - hence the almost 50/50 split in the US - although the rest of the world seems a hell of a lot more on my side of this.
Originally posted by Imperium Americana
To be fair the same could be said about many on the left as well, present company excluded of course.
As a Christian, and a Republican, I would not be offended if your premise is: Fundamentalism being the cause of Red state voting patterns.
To throw around concepts that even imply that there is a lack of education, economic capability, or any other abilities in Red states due to a high saturation of certain religious beliefs is prejudicial.
What if I were to imply that Africa is in its present state because the population is overwhelmingly Black? Not only would that statement be factually in error but would be pseudo racist.
In a sense that is what you have said or that was the gist. That makes the very premise suspect.
Although it has been my experience that a majority opinion does not always mean a correct one. Of course neither does a minority. LOL
I persevere in this thread only because I feel that you are very intelligent. If I thought you were a dolt, I would have never replied.
1. Have you ever been to the States and if so where?
2. How do you feel about religion?
3.Have you ever know someone who was a Christian Fundamentalist and if so how long?
3.Have you ever know someone who was a Christian Fundamentalist and if so how long?
-Yes, for several years.
I have known members of a few 'Bible-believing' fundamentalist churches here in the UK and found them to be personally nice people but actually quite frighteningly restrictive of the childrens' education and behaviour.
Originally posted by knights5629
In exactly how are "Bible-believing " fundamentalist churches restrictive of their children's education and behaviour?
What are we comparing? Is it your assumption, that these people are less educated then you?
Are you a scientist, by the way?
You talked about how you believed that Christian "scientists", if they believe in something else, are less educated?
(Sorry if I misquoted you, I trying to work from memory on what you said. Me being less educated than you.)
Let me ask you a simple question- is it good to question the establishment?
I believe that any good scientist, Christian or non-Christian, questions what they see, what they have been taught, and what others believe.
In fact, I have just read a good article about a man in the UK who believes that we (humans) can live to be up to 5000 years old. Every one else believes other wise. Is he less educated or is he questioning everything that he has been taught about human life expectancy?
Questioning something will do one of two things for science- 1) it will change what we believe or 2) it will confirm what we believe. If evolution is correct, then only by questioning it will it become stronger. And vice versa.
I do not consider myself as a less educated person
I could probably hold any sort of conversation with you at any time.
I am well read, well studied Bible Believing Christian. And I would love to have a debate with you.
Originally posted by knights5629
I am a literalist! I believe in the Bible literally. But you state, generally, that most literal Bible believing people don't question what they are told?
So if we can get back on topic of the thread, you tend to believe that generally literal Bible believing people are like sheep, just doing what they have been told, without question. Am I correct in that statement?
If you agree with the above statement, that means the Red States, ones that have a great percentage of literal Bible believing people, were told in their churches to vote for Bush and not to vote for Kerry.
And in general, those literal Bible believing people did. Is that what you meant by lagging behind, redneck, uneducated, etc....?
I, personally, think that humans beings are like sheep.
The vast majority of people never question what they have been told, never search for what they believe to be the truth, they except it blindly.
Not just literal Bible believing people.
I bet I could make the same generality about people who voted for Kerry. Most people just voted for who they were told to vote for, never questioning him or his positions.
So I think that you "Jesusland" comparison, should be more acuately described as which party, Republican or Democrat, had the better turnout in terms of the vote.
In the Red states, Republican voters can out more and in the Blue states Democratic voters can out more.
Although I don't know why you feel the way you do about literal Bible Believing people, I just hope that I have entertained you enough.
By the way, I am a scientist, and I do believe in Creation, and I still question both theories every time I can.
I figured that I need to know as much as I can to make a conscience decision. To help you understand my position as a creationist, I can recommend some books that are very well written,researched, and footnoted.
Originally posted by knights5629
What an interesting conversation.
The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that people make decision every day on things that they hear or are told or are seen with out making a serious effort to find the information.
Republican do that with their canidates. Even though I voted for Bush, I have had some serious discussions with Republicans about some of the very bad decisions that Bush had made. Some people just can't believe that their canidate has some very serious flaws.
I know you hate to generalize, so here is a very specific question. Do you think that the majority of Bush supporters voted with out question? and Do you think that the majority of Kerry supporters voted with out question? If not, why?
Do you have proof that the election was flawed? Do proof on something that I haven't seen and that hasn't been discussed lately? If you don't, then drop the issue about the election. Bush was re-elected whether you like it or not.
By the way, on the area of Bush, election, voter fraud, it sure doesn't sound like you have an open, questioning, critical mind.
You sure sound like a sheeple to me!
You are just spouting the same tired old rheteric that I have heard many times by lots of people. Try to get something new this time.
- The comparison has been with the rest of the USA.
Like I said the more fundamentalist and less open-thinking the area the less likely it is to be front-runner in the given societies' pecking order.
Originally posted by James the Lesser
Anyways, sucks to be a red state, wait, in one, damn it, I don't want to "know" the earth is 6,000 years old, I have to marry my sister, and that god will bitchslap anyone not rich white heterosexual republican male.