So... Why do you debate?

Hello ATS'ers!

From time to time I get asked "why do you even bother" in some topics or "Can't we just have an opinion", and it always leaves me wondering, "why did you respond in the first place if you didn't want a response back?"

I guess debating isn't for everyone

But it is for me!!!

I love a good debate, and I love discussing things I never really contemplated before either. For me, it's a great way to learn new things, teach others new things and deny ignorance at a whole. Of course in many conversations some people just run off, but there are these jewels of ATS that stick with it and even admit when they were at a fault (which gains much respect). Some of the best memories I have from ATS is when I was proven wrong in a topic I thought I understood, and new my view on it has totally changed for the better, for now it's a much more accurate view.

So for me, if I see someone mistakenly quote-mine something, or present inaccurate information, or simply have an opinion that may be different from mine, I love to inquire, learn and perhaps enlighten, which is why I love debating here on ATS.

So, why do you debate?

To make others angry (:

originally posted by: Ghost147
Hello ATS'ers!

From time to time I get asked "why do you even bother" in some topics or "Can't we just have an opinion", and it always leaves me wondering, "why did you respond in the first place if you didn't want a response back?"

I guess debating isn't for everyone

I think you guessed right.

Some people just want to chime in, voice an opinion or thought and not debate.

Their choice.

The sites big enough for all types of contributions.

a reply to: Ghost147

I love debate. I learn when I am wrong. (Usually after I stop debating). I love philosophy. I like to point out fallacy and defend even a position I don't agree with if they have better logic than someone else. (People always call me a Christian apologetic even though I am closer to an atheist because I like to tear apart dumb angry arguements).

Mostly to elevate my own thought process by debating a worthy opponent.

Your thread immediately brought to mind a great quote by Noam Chomsky. (Even though I'm not a big Chomsky fan.)
It's been paraphrased and re-told, but It went something like:

The 'powers that be' effectively control the masses by limiting the opinions the masses have on any subject, but allowing endless debate within those limits.

Many times, I post when I see something that's not right & feel the need to point it out. Other times, I just want to chime in on something. When I first got here, I went into detail in my posts so readers & lurkers could be pointed in the right direction if they wanted to research the subject itself (particularly if it was about Islam). So I wasn't really debating with the person I was replying to; I was basically refuting the idea or assertion behind their post.

However, I'm juggling a lot of things away from ATS now. So sometimes, I just don't have the time to keep going back & forth w/someone. This is especially true if they continuously misrepresent the topic, don't get what I'm saying, or ignore nearly everything I type & only nitpick one phrase in my entire response. Grrr... (Oh & sometimes I can't remember which thread I was posting in. meh)

I'm also a very impatient person in real life, though I've been working on that. So a lot of times, I just don't have the patience to keep repeating myself. If someone doesn't accept my first answer, why would they accept my 2nd? And if they accept my 1st answer, why do I need to give more? I'm working on that though, because not liking to answer questions can do more harm than good.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

istighfar.wordpress.com...

Just for you my great friend.

Your input is vastly appreciated from an Islamic beginners view...

I've probably learned as much from you as I have from my own ventures researching the history of our Faith in the short time you've been with us.

Keep the patience, brother.

I like a good debate now and then...

So many topics for a polymath to jump into here, I'm like a kid in a candy shop sometimes.

Other times I want to throw my phone out the window, or smash my head off of the wall dealing with certain people.

Whether free speech, gun rights, abortion, religion now and then, politics, UFOs & Aliens, civil unrest or philosophy...
Who doesn't love a good debate.



Sometimes, as Slayer pointed out succinctly, it may just be a singular point of view one would like to get across and not really engage in debate over.

But debate is healthy.

a reply to: Ghost147

I think I'm right on a variety of topics.

Debate either confirms that I'm right or illustrates how wrong I was.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

istighfar.wordpress.com...

Just for you my great friend.

Your input is vastly appreciated from an Islamic beginners view...

I've probably learned as much from you as I have from my own ventures researching the history of our Faith in the short time you've been with us.

Keep the patience, brother.

Thanks, man.


And yes, patience is definitely a virtue. Every time I think I've finally "got it", a new test comes by that trips me up. It's usually not even the big things, just the little things that I don't see coming. LOL The worse part is that I should know better.

And yeah, I think debate is healthy for everyone. Sometimes, we might not realize how crazy one of our ideas are if others don't point it out to us. Hmmm, or maybe that's just me? LOL

a reply to: Ghost147

The thing that really motivates me to keep posting my opinions on here is when I encounter what I call tyranny of the minority, by which I mean the current trend in world politics which is to champion minority causes by foisting them on the whole of society.

As opposed to tyranny of the majority, which is the imposition of majority interests on society...both are bad but this is clearly less so than the former.

The majority of people don't want to live in a multiethnic, multicultural society, don't want mass immigration (particularly Muslim mass immigration), don't want to live in a society where their schoolchildren are not disciplined and their criminals go unpunished...yet these are precisely the policies of Western governments. Like I say, tyranny of the minority.

Wherever I encounter crazy, stupid, undemocratic...I have to opine.

It's like an itch I can't scratch. If world politics ever become sane again, you'll never hear another word from me. Promise.

BTW I prefer your original avatar.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: Ghost147
BTW I prefer your original avatar.

That's debatable...

I see it like weight lifting for the brain.

Often it is not the issue itself that is important to me,
(I'll pick one that doesn't matter much to me at all, or choose the side of it that is contrary to what I feel personally)
It is the skills that are developed during the debate that are important.

It is the critical thought, using reason and logic, that must be exercised;
It is the self control in terms of emotional response and reflex,
It is "overcoming yourself" too, in terms of humility - being able to admit when wrong, or open to new views and expand the mind.

This also allows me to develop my personal opinion on some issues. When I am doing that, my arguments are often not well constructed at first, and can get sort of confusing to read, as I meander through my reflections, but the pressure of having to respond to an adversary pushes me to whittle it down and streamline it into something more clear and concise, that I can just put on the table in the future, in discussions on the same subject.

I do not see any need to convince the other, or to have a "winner" and a "loser". It is like having a friend practice boxing with you, but mentally. You are both developing your own skills and opinions.

There is no better way to refine thinking and ideas than having them hardened in battle, and tested in the marketplace.

I like exercising my brain and I've always found the best way to test limitations and improve is to compete against others. It's mental sparring where the most focused, reasoned and disciplined person will come out on top.

If you lose you find the holes in your own game and try again another time.

i came here to chew gum and fling poo

and i have run out of gum

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle.

One of my favorite quotes. It is what drives me here.

However, ignorant views make me twitch, but it isn't that they are ignorant in essence. It is that they simply differ from my own. So I spend a lot of time contemplating the other side, and reading full threads here, often times without commenting.

I like telling people who aren't right, that they are wrong.

Love requires us to share the truth with others about things that matter regardless if it's politically correct or not...

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." ~ Thomas Jefferson

a reply to: Ghost147

Why?

I think an awful lot depends on the subject matter, because some topics just are not worth debating in my estimation. There is no point asking whether or not our governments are owned by shadowy business persons and anonymous limousine occupants.

There may be some reason to debate the solution to our climate change situation, but there is no longer any reason to discuss the cause, since the consensus seems to be that we cannot reach one on the subject.