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On this very site shortly after I signed up there was a poll where about a third of the respondents claimed they would be a raider NOW. The way my mental math works, the two thirds who think they're all moral and ethical now...probably had a full tummy and most really do not have all their things in order....NOW.
Which leads me to believe on this site the real numbers are over half the people being raiders and as far as the rest of the totally not prepared world, I'd say the real numbers of raiders to non would be....the majority.
The sad truth is that everyone here and everyone that reads this will become the "bad guy" when they or their wife and kids are starving. Those of you that believe your morals are too high to plunder, steal and yes, even kill for food when you have none are only kidding yourselves. Oh, I would never do that.....BS!
(appear to be the biggest target to these survival board members) Members of the LDS Church are supposed to have a year's worth of food stored up and too many people think being religious means being unarmed. Would-be raiders might think to start out by raiding a Temple, getting member records, and then paying visits, if they don't already know which of their neighbors are Mormons.
(On another board, I read a post about how a secret prepper was chatting with his neighbor about hard times and possible disasters, and the neighbor came out and said "Hey, I'm not worried. X down the street is a Mormon. If anything goes wrong, I'll just take my gun and take what he's got". The prepper - once he got over the shock - suggested that might not be a good idea as X was also a gun nut, which kind of took the neighbor back. The prepper later put the neighbor on his list of people to look out for in a crisis, and also had a chat with X about the folks on the street where they lived...)
"we will head towards Utah them mormons have food. been storing it for years. many of us in Utah have also been storing ammo for years...just a thought
Five seconds after the SHTF event My friend will be at the grocery store and then the pharmacy long before everyone figures out what is happening.
Next I am going to a Mormons house for the 3 month supply of food.
Farmers - Another possibility is they intend to drive out and raid farms and ranches, convinced that such places must be full of food. Don't know what they think they'll do with a silo full of grain, or a bunch of cows or hogs; especially since I doubt any of them know squat about butchering or meat preservation. Food preparation, either. Raider wanna-bes seldom impress me with their smarts or foresight. Which is probably why they're raider wanna-bes.
Plant a garden......another joke in the short term before most have died off. How long does it take most crops to mature.....90 days? Let's say you grow tomatoes or whatever and there are millions of people who haven't done any prepping and they are starving, what happens? Right, they raid your garden, maybe by the hundreds. Bottom line, unless you are going to shoot everyone, those hoards of starving people are going to take your garden by storm.
And, you raise livestock? OK, how long you think Bessie the cow is going to last when people are starving? You won't have a chicken left.
This is what I'm talking about, but you see, the country is only the country because all the city slickers are in the city. Where do you think they are gonna come when the city isn't a resource anymore? Where do you think they are coming where food is running in the woods?
All of a sudden everyone becomes a great hunter is just another Fantasy! Unless some calamity strikes, that knocks down almost every human, hunting for food after TEOTWAWKI is a recipe for starvation. I get a large percentage of my meat supply from hunting and fishing. During a good year, I fill my freezers early, and everyone else that hunts nearby has worse luck... if they get lucky, I don't. This last year, floods pushed out all the deer, and people miles away harvested them.
Whitetails were exterminated in my part of E Texas (whole region) during the Great Depression. They were missing until the mid-50's when the State had meetings and made agreements with people to not kill them for so many years, till they reached stable populations. My father told a story about during the later years of WWII someone saw a deer track... the community got together, put dogs on the trail, and two days later ran the deer down... they killed it and ate it right there... and another decade passed before the State restocked em.
All large game will disappear in weeks. Without rules and regulations (and wardens to enforce the rules), starving people will spotlight em, and kill every single animal they see.
At the end of 'legal season', deer are mighty scarce... and that's with recreational non-starving hunters.
I think you're missing my point. When the white tails go, the guys that hunted them don't stop...they keep going. We will be an overpopulated, well armed species that animals are not adapted to defend against. We will kill them faster than they can reproduce, we almost do it on accident now as it is.
There will NOT be enough wild game to be hunted for any extended period of time, unless a large populations of humans are apart of the crisis.
But, maybe you can fish and hunt for food? You and a million others. And I can just see you and a multitude of others lined up at the river/lake and when you finally catch a big ole catfish, you will be mobbed. You'll have to shoot your way out.
I was speaking to Urban Preppers as well. Which half of the city slickers do you think is going to be scarier, the half that died, or the resilient half that figured out how to survive in a place with no wild game; i.e. well armed, large numbered group of possibly trained people who are coming to where the food is. And if you live in Texas, which is mostly privately owned...they are going to be coming to your private property.
Don't count on hunting, you may end up as dinner -
Law Enforcement / Military
I think during the beginning of a crisis if police are struggling with food or fuel they'll requisition whatever they want or need under the name of national security or some other. Just driving down the road you'll be a target for a stop and seizure of your property/fuel. Of course all that can be mitigated by prepping and not having to go out during the onset of a disaster. Officials appropriating supplies sent for aid, or siphoning it to only those useful to them. Or going door to door to "requisition" your stuff.... for themselves by their "Authority".
Prepper Recon - Fake prepper:
"You seem to take some sort of perverse pride in being willing to kill others and condemn their families to death so yours will survive. Do you tell your friends and other family members that you plan to kill them for their preps if yours run out and that's your only choice?? Its nice you prep so you might not have to do this. You do realize you just told us you prep plan includes killing others if need be not in defense but in offense. You strike me as a person one should never turn their back on. You have shown the ability to justify any and all immoral behavior.
You are a Preppers nightmare. You will work with us, act as our friend even pray with us, the whole time scoping us out and planning how to take it all if you need to. Somehow the excuse that you would only do if you really needed to doesn't make me sleep any easier"
I will not fight fair and I will remorselessly eliminate any raiders.
If things go horribly wrong,
If my stores are raided..........
If I am unable to grow anything.........
If I am unable to hunt or fish...........
If I am unable to barter my goods or my labor to obtain food...........
Then yeah, I'm going to feed my little girl. She is the only thing that matters and the rest of the world can go to hell. I will steal, I will raid, I will take your food if you have any and I will kill you if need be.
But hey, I'm constantly learning new skills and new ways to survive so it won't come to that. Bottom line though, my little girl will not starve while I'm alive.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
Posts of advice - When do you become the bad guy?
You become the "bad guy" to others when the unprepared find out you have supplies and won't share "for the common good".
They become the "bad guys" to you when they find out you have supplies and won't share "for the common good" and they decide to "liberate" your supplies for the common good.
Best advice, stay away from other people. They all are potential dangers to you and yours. Leave them in peace to work out their own problems and make sure nobody creates any new problems for you.
Under conditions of total collapse of all legal, civil, social, moral, or ethical constraints people may encounter these sorts of scenarios.
The moral of the story is,
1. Be responsible NOW, so that you don't have to be put in that situation where you have to become your neighbors "bad guy" in order to become your families "Savior".
2. Everyone is suspect. People will do anything when the scales of importance and priorities shift. If SHTF, that "bad guy" that you have to shoot..will most likely be "Daddy" to another person....who was trying to save his family. =(
Get Into The Heads of Those to Watch For
In a collapse, not all looters are created equally. There will be varying degrees of how far a person is willing to go to survive. But even the best, most honest of people will be desperate for food and water. It’s a good idea to consider who might be approaching your doorstep before trouble shows.
Stan, the Family Man: He has loved ones that he desperately wants to protect. He ignored the hassle of preparedness. He even ignored FEMA’s suggestion of storing three days worth of emergency food and water. Money has been tight once his hours were cut since the economic slow-down. He’d thought about selling the jet skis and investing in storage food, but it was just too depressing. Now a wide-spread emergency has decimated grocer’s shelves in a matter of hours. Water is scarce and there are rumors of many in the area getting sick after drinking non-purified water from a nearby lake. The toilet won’t flush, sewage has backed up in the tub and there is no electric. Communications are down and he and his family are without hope. The first two days, he’d held out hope that help would arrive. But it hasn’t and his family is hungry and thirsty and frightened. Stan has always paid his dues, and would normally never think about stealing from others. But, that was then. He must do whatever it takes to provide for his family. The cooking smells coming from across the hallway of his apartment building has set a plan in motion. Survival has come down to them or him…
* * *
Toni, the Prisoner: When the lights went out, security at the prison was compromised. Most of the jail guards left for home at first sign of trouble. Now, the tables are turned and Toni and several other inmates have escaped. Toni and his group are on foot, but that doesn’t present a problem because their rural location offers plenty of opportunities. The farmers in the area have fruits and vegetables ripe for the picking. Several in the vicinity raise horses. Now that he and the other inmates broke out of prison, Toni considers himself lucky; the problem of food and transportation is solved…once he and the five other inmates have overtaken the family they’ve targeted.
* * *
Scorpion, the Gang Member: Scorpion, a member of a major gang is, mad at life and knows he’s entitled to survive because he’s young and strong. He’s willing to do whatever it takes without remorse. He and his homeboys have plenty of firepower and ammunition: the tools of their trade. They can’t wait to take what they need, just for the sheer sport of it. And it’s proven to be as easy as stealing candy from a baby. Several home invasions produced more than enough food, water and medical supplies. What didn’t interest them was grabbed and sold on the black market to desperate customers. The best part is they didn’t even have to leave the city. There’s more than enough to keep the gang well fed. Along the way, they’ve picked up an arsenal. Ammo is now so plentiful, it’s moved past need and has been sold for more than what gold and silver is fetching. The few police combating the looting and killing don’t have the manpower to take down his gang, and they’re on a rampage.
* * *
John, the Tactically Trained: For the past two days, John has had to watch his neighbors go into meltdown. They’re without food and water, as is John. One of his neighbors is a diabetic with no way to get insulin. They can’t call their doctor—cell and land line phones haven’t worked for days. Plus, the roads are in complete gridlock. The gas stations ran out of fuel within 24-hours of the crisis and many frantic motorists trying to flee ran out of gas, or experienced car problems, leaving their vehicles to clog the roadways.
John feels for his neighbor, but he has loved ones. They are his number one priority and he’s run out of time. John and several of his hunting buddies have decided it’s time to search for survival goods, taking their ATV’s. John’s military training now comes in handy. As leader of the group, he knows to head outside the suburb he lives for the boonies where it’s more likely there will be plentiful food and water and preparedness goods. They’ve agreed not to hurt anyone, so long as they’re allowed to take what they need. John knows what to look for: the sound of a generator or lights shining through windows. This is his signal a homeowner is prepared. During the day his group listens for the tell-tale sounds of a generator, a chainsaw, or a motorized vehicle, which isn’t hard to do now that the grid’s down. For days, things have been eerily silent. At night, John and his hunting buddies look for the tell-tale glow of lights reflecting from windows. In no time, they have what they need and will return to this rural goldmine on an as-need basis.
* * *
Brenda, the Naysayer: Brenda laughed when her co-worker, Sarah, shared her prepping plans. Now, the streets are over-run with desperate folks. The stores have been looted. Grocers, sporting good stores and gun shops were the first to get hit. But there have been plenty of TV’s, computers and high-ticket electronic items pilfered, even though they’re no good to anyone at present. The family car has an empty gas tank, but she’s in good health and so is the rest of her family. It’s just blind luck Brenda knows where Sarah lives, and the awesome part is she isn’t far—only a couple of miles away. Her family is into bicycling, so the problem of transportation is solved; They’ll just zip past the gridlock, baring looters, that is. The rest of Brenda’s plan lies with the knowledge that Sarah is kindhearted.
She’ll put Brenda and her family up until order is restored, which from the looks of things could be a long time. Brenda and her husband throw what little they have in their pantry (what they can handle weight-wise, anyway) into backpacks and pillowcases. Next, they clear out the medicine cabinet. They tried to use their ATM card for cash just yesterday, so they wouldn’t show up empty-handed—they’d never want to be seen as free-loaders—but the grid is hopelessly crashed, so no luck there, and all businesses are closed, including the banks. But Brenda doesn’t necessarily see that as a deal-breaker. She did everything she could, other than fill her pantry and get preparedness goods. And besides, Brenda has two adorable kids…how can Sarah say no?
* * *
Will You Be A Victim?
Desperate families, prison inmates, gang-bangers and freeloaders will be out there during a full-on collapse. The first thing you want to do is to get prepared so that you aren’t one of them. Next, how you handle desperate people and whether you come out on the other side alive has a lot to do with planning beforehand. Here are some pointers. Hopefully, you have some of your own to share by commenting below:
The “Vacant Home” strategy: Many people plan on making their home look unoccupied in an attempt to protect themselves from looters. In grid down, you don’t necessarily want to have your home appear vacant. The average person won’t risk getting shot when they believe a home is occupied. It’s better to keep them guessing, and that also includes NOT telegraphing your preparedness.
You will be an instant target if you’re running a noisy a generator, or driving a vehicle, or using a chain saw when your area has drawn looters or worse. It sends a message: You’re prepared and you have goods they need! It’s best to forgo the obvious. Some generators are built to run quietly. Is yours? If not, when looters are in your area, use only tools that won’t draw as much attention like a tree-felling ax, and cease running a noisy generator until it’s safer to do so. Keep vehicles parked, and gas storage out of site. Some things that you can do are to add supplementary mufflers to your generator, build a sound dampening enclosure, build an underground sound dampening enclosure, and only run your generator during the noisiest parts of the day, if possible.
Don’t light up your home in grid-down! Now is a good time to fit your windows with black-out curtains. Even using a piece of material that’s secured—possibly with duct tape, so light doesn’t escape and alert people outside, will do. Whatever you do, test, test, and test again. Test your black-out provisions now when there is plenty of ambient light and test them again if the grid goes down on moonless nights.
Cooking odors will attract anyone with a growling stomach, including neighbors, looters and worse. Keep canned goods and MRE’s on hand for times when looting is rampant.
You must have the means to defend yourself. Guns and ammo may be the pivotal deciding factor between who comes out ahead: Toni the prisoner or Scorpion the gang banger, or you and your loved ones. It will be necessary in times of unruliness, when people are frantic to survive, to patrol your home, whether it happens to be in the boonies or in the city. This, often times, requires a trusted group. It may become impossible to protect a location with just a husband and wife due to the heightened demands on your time that during normal times is not an issue. This is a separate post, however, because of all it entails. Look for the post soon!
Either have stored water or a safe route to get it and keep a high-quality water purifier on hand. During a collapse, sanitation will go south. Never risk drinking non-purified water. (David’s Note: I plan on purifying any water that I have stored rather than relying on my container cleaning and water preserving skills to keep us safe.)
Have a backup plan for toilet use and basic hygiene, as we talked about in this article: www.survivethecomingcollapse.com/1470/grid-down-water-and-sewer/
Put aside medical supplies. Should anyone in your family or group be inured, medical aid is unlikely to show during a crisis. We’ll talk about what you’ll need specifically in an upcoming post.
Keep several ABC fire extinguishers that will handle all types of fires. Do not expect to be able to contact the fire department for help. (David’s note: We also keep a LARGE supply of baking soda, aloe, and other first aid items for burns. One of these items is anbesol…which is for teeth, but contains .9% lidocaine. Solarcaine is aloe and .5% lidocaine and it works well also. You can buy lidocaine cream without a prescription at a 5% concentration >HERE< www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001F8HY0U/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=surviveinplac-20)
NEVER depend upon land line and cell phones to work when a crisis strikes. If you doubt this, you only have to look at the Japan tsunami, or Haiti, or Katrina. Have a back-up plan, always—which we’ll be covering here in an upcoming post. (David’s note: Never underestimate the power of randomness in a large scale disaster. On 9/11 in NYC, the network that Blackberries operated on was the only one that was reliable. After Katrina, friends doing security contracting weren’t able to use cell phones, but were able to use landline phones even though the water was 6 feet deep on the ground floor and the cables were under water. In Hawaii, the night that the earthquake hit Japan and a tsunami was expected to hit Hawaii, cell phone circuits were busy, but I was still able to email, tweet, post updates, and surf the web over my data connection on the same phone that couldn’t make a call.)
When possible, a large dog is worth considering. It’s long been known by police that a large, serious-sounding dog will stop the bad guy. Problem is, he’ll just look for easier targets. You must provide for their survival, just as you have your loved ones, which will mean plenty of dog food. In my book, Survival: Prepare Before Disaster Strikes, www.amazon.com/gp/product/1927360099/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=surviveinplac-20 I shared a work-around for those who can’t keep a dog. Just having a beat-up, large dog collar, worn water and food bowls, and a heavy duty chain trailing on the ground WILL have the bad guy thinking twice about attacking your home. After reading this section, a wise-cracking Alaskan friend suggested a chewed up moose leg.
Divide and avoid being conquered. Split up your survival goods in as many ways as are practical for you. Some people will have more options than others, depending on their living situation and how willing they are to hide things in places that many would consider to be completely crazy. Splitting up and hiding your survival goods will allow you to sacrifice stashes if necessary without giving up everything.
* * *
Most of us, if given the opportunity, would choose to help others, and many preppers who can afford to have put aside extra canned goods to help others. But there is a world of difference between helping someone in need and becoming a victim of someone who plans to steal your preparedness goods with force. It’s important to agree amongst family or group members how you will address likely scenarios, so if the time comes, you’ll be able to react as a cohesive group. Hesitation can kill you!
originally posted by: aethertek
Isn't it interesting how paranoia seems to spread almost like a virus.
You have the paranoid "survivalist" posts in the OP that were probably "conceived" from listening to some other paranoid nonsense about the economy or Obama & then use those to further spread paranoid concerns of "shtf scenario" paranoia here.
Law Enforcement / Military I think during the beginning of a crisis if police are struggling with food or fuel they'll requisition whatever they want or need under the name of national security or some other. Just driving down the road you'll be a target for a stop and seizure of your property/fuel. Of course all that can be mitigated by prepping and not having to go out during the onset of a disaster. Officials appropriating supplies sent for aid, or siphoning it to only those useful to them. Or going door to door to "requisition" your stuff.... for themselves by their "Authority".