So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: lovebeck


They don't. I know this becaus I have been a nurse for nearly 20 years...

not yet but its getting there
seems like it is here for prenatal
i got it with pain management
i also got it with ER visits

things change in the medical field. daily. yearly.
what is acceptable and/or normal now might not be next year

Pain management, yes, that is a given. They have to ensure you are TAKING the meds and not selling them or using other drugs that WOULD interfere with or potentiate the effects of narcotic pain medications.

ER's only test if they suspect someone is drug seeking or doctor shopping...They do not drug test every patient that comes in to seek emergency care.

Trust me, I am well aware of how and how often things change in medicine, but claiming they drug test everyone in every setting is justnot the way things are done.

originally posted by: LSU0408

Yeah, but who's going to refuse to take a test if they haven't been drinking some form of alcohol?

Here in Texas there's only certain weekends when it's no refusal (holidays, increased drinking times). Otherwise you can refuse. And many did (when I arrested them). Refusal to consent does not constitute probable cause and you have to leave them alone at that point. But the whole interview is videotaped. So there's physical proof of them slurring and stumbling.

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

Months later they have a good chance of beating a DWI conviction, but they spent at least $10,000 to get there.

As far as searching your house, your person or your vehicle: If they ask you for consent, you have the right to deny them consent. Period. Then it's up to them to come up with enough probable cause to go before a judge and get a search warrant. And if you're innocent? Then you especially should refuse. And if they do it anyway? They're not going to find anything, and they've just laid themselves wide open with a serious violation.

* There's a few other exceptions when you can search without a warrant- exigent circumstances (you hear screaming for help in a house), hot pursuit (you're chasing a suspect and the run into a house, you don't have to stop at the door), plain view and plain touch. But the point of this whole thread is the right to refuse consent for a warrantless search.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Jesus, what a thread you started!

If I were you, I would consent to ONE drug screen...They do usually do one at the first PN visit and at delivery. Other than that? I don't know why they would need to drug test you for pregnancy UNLESS you showed signs of drug abuse.

It is very sad but neonatal abstinence syndrome is becoming a HUGE epidemic. Goes right along with the heroin problem.

I guess they're wanting to put just about everyone who's pregnant in that box these days, I don't know. But I've never heard of random drug screens with a prenatal visit.
Like ever...

Stand your ground. Find a different provider and explain to them that 1. You do not use drugs and have nothing to hide and 2. Because of #1 there's absolutely no reason to drug test you regularly or randomly.

a reply to: lovebeck

And in those instances when they do drug test it's not with the caveat that they turn you in to the authorities. If you test positive for illegal drugs then they can refuse to prescribe you abusable drugs. Or if you're supposed to be taking pain meds and a test shows you're not, then you're likely selling them. At which point the doc can stop seeing you as a patient.

That's my beef with this doctor's policy. It's not for my health, it's for the purposes of law enforcement.

a reply to: lovebeck

Haha! Thanks! I updated on the last page. I just made an appointment for next week with a different office. I downloaded all their intake paperwork and there is nothing like that, so we should be good to go. I even told the new office why the other office refused to see me. AND I called Medicare to tell them that the first office refused to treat me, so if they get a bill they should refuse to pay it!

I've got nothing to hide. I've done nothing wrong. I have the right to refuse a warrantless search of my person, and by God I will. Every time.

* The new office is going to do blood work on the first appointment. Which is fine. I believe that is actually for my health. But this 'we're going to randomly drug test you and send the results to CPS' is BS.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

4. To Agartha: You say they 'can't' do a drug test without my consent? I would almost bet money that they did, because like some other people on here they would take my protest as a sign of guilt. They would see it as their duty so that they could report me to CPS. They don't have to do a whole detailed blood panel. There are drug dip sticks that they can stick in your urine to check for illegal drugs.

It doesn't matter if it's a dip stick or with a lab, you cannot do a drug test without consent (unless you are in special circumstances like being arrested, for example). I would lose my job immediately if I did, I have to have verbal or written consent from each patient and before each procedure.

Hospitals perform all kinds of tests before deciding on a medical treatment and if they think it necessary they would want to do a drug test. I have already explained why they do it with pregnant women: it is about targetting drug abuse in pregnant women. Nothing more. Do you know drug abuse during pregnancy is considered child abuse? That's why they do it. I've had three children and I have consented to all proposed tests because I wanted the best treatment for my unborn and myself. I honestly don't see the problem.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: LSU0408
Well hey, I understand your frustration, but if you sign that paper to let them test your system for drugs, you won't leave that clinic feeling any different. It's up to you though, I'd sign it and be done, and I'm definitely not one that will just lay over and give in to something. I wish you the best and I hope none of my posts come across assholish to you. My fiance is 7 wks 6 days today so it seems like you two may have conceived around the same time if I read your posts correctly.

Haha! The only ones annoying me are the ones accusing me of being a drug addict and the ones making it seem like I'm putting my baby's life in danger by not going to the doctor RIGHT THIS MINUTE! Prenatal care is mostly a bunch of monitoring, they don't really DO much. I'm already late getting this appointment anyway because I had bronchitis (possibly pneumonia) all through December.

My due date is July 10. Congrats on yours! Hope all goes smoothly! With my son I was sick as a dog the WHOLE friggin time. This one...I honestly keep forgetting I'm pregnant. That makes me think it's a girl!

One more reason I refuse to bow down to their crap: Most of the reason I'm disabled now is because of medical malpractice. So I will admit my respect for doctors is less than zero. I'm watching them like a hawk. And as for everyone who thinks lawsuits are such a big deal: I'm permanently disabled because of malpractice, yet MULTIPLE lawyers told me that you have to be physically disabled (as in paralyzed, unable to care for yourself) or dead to be able to sue anymore. Yay tort reform!

Ahh... August 25th for us. We just spent $30 on 120 nausea pills that would have been $708 without insurance. My fiance said they are beyond amazing and sees why they are so expensive. I think her prenatals (Vitafol Ultra) are $150 without insurance.

a reply to: Agartha

and yet, eating a bagel with poppy seeds on it along with some cream cheese might be considered a healthy diet, shampooing your hair might be considered good hygiene, yet both could possibly turn up a positive drug test...before anyone can argue about this, they have to convince the people that the drug tests are accurate, which they are not.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

4. To Agartha: You say they 'can't' do a drug test without my consent? I would almost bet money that they did, because like some other people on here they would take my protest as a sign of guilt. They would see it as their duty so that they could report me to CPS. They don't have to do a whole detailed blood panel. There are drug dip sticks that they can stick in your urine to check for illegal drugs.

It doesn't matter if it's a dip stick or with a lab, you cannot do a drug test without consent (unless you are in special circumstances like being arrested, for example). I would lose my job immediately if I did, I have to have verbal or written consent from each patient and before each procere.

As if a private practitioner would waste money on a drug test of a non-client "just out of curiosity" in the first place.

originally posted by: dawnstar
and yet, eating a bagel with poppy seeds on it along with some cream cheese might be considered a healthy diet, shampooing your hair might be considered good hygiene, yet both could possibly turn up a positive drug test...before anyone can argue about this, they have to convince the people that the drug tests are accurate, which they are not.

Are you talking about the hair follicle or urine test? Because I know some worry hemp shampoo may give a false positive, but that's not true. Please provide evidence for your claim, I would like to read about it (re: poppy seeds and cheese, etc.).

originally posted by: GetHyped

As if a private practitioner would waste money on a drug test of a non-client "just out of curiosity" in the first place.

Curiosity? what about time? NHS nurses with spare time to do unnecessary tests? imagine!
lol

a reply to: Agartha

healthland.time.com...

www3.alternet.org...

a reply to: Agartha

If they were concerned about my health here are some viable options:
1. Accept that I refuse consent and continue with care....vital signs, baby heartbeat, urine for glucose & pH. A drug test is not necessary in prenatal care, there's plenty of other stuff they could do.
2. Ask for consent to a drug test, with the assurance that results would be confidential. Let the doctor counsel an addict on safer alternatives and the importance of not exposing the fetus to such substances. Smoking cigarettes is perfectly legal, but it's horrible for fetuses. Doctors should be asking about these bad habits and counseling their patients in the safety of the office, not bringing the government into it.
3. Have their consent form include the wording: probable cause. If they have SOME kind of reason to suspect you're doing something illegal, then that would be something.

Any of the above would be totally acceptable (and constitutional) in my opinion. And if the form had been worded as 2. and 3. I would have signed them. My issue is "random testing for the purpose of reporting to law enforcement". This is a search of my person without a warrant and they don't have my consent.

As far as them testing the urine anyway....maybe they did and maybe they didn't. Me refusing to sign this one 'voluntary' consent form was a big stink in the office. I could see several nurses back in the office looking at the form and discussing it amongst themselves. They didn't know what to think. It took like, 4 of them to decide what to do about me. And they just happened to have me come back and leave a urine sample BEFORE they had a conversation about the form? Maybe you're right and they obeyed the law and discarded the urine as soon as I left. Or MAYBE (like others on here) they took my refusal to be evidence that I'm loaded to the gills on drugs and thought they would be the heroes of the day by testing my urine and reporting me to CPS. IF they did test it, they wasted a test because it was totally clean. But here's the kicker: even if they illegally obtained a sample and reported me to CPS I would NOT be able to dispute the charges against me based on illegally gained evidence. I would have to go through the full ride with CPS. All the interviews, the inspection of my home, the interviewing of my other children and the permanent record. Even if charges are never filed. And there would be jack sh*t I could do about it.

Even when dealing with police: if a cop illegally gets evidence, it will be thrown out in court...BUT if Joe Blow illegally gets evidence and turns it over to the police it's fair game.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

It sounds like you are just being a jerk. No offense, but medical malpractice lawsuits are a real thing and one of the leading causes of high medical costs in the USA. If you don't consent, he/she can't be sure he/she is doing the right thing for you as a doctor and opens his/her self up for liability.

If you don't like it, pick another doctor. They will say the same thing.

For you not to know why the test is required for good medical care is very ignorant of how hard it is to be a doctor in this day and age.

Your reasoning for denying the drug test and not denying the std test are at odds with each other. They both serve the same purpose. Determinging how to treat you and the baby. If you accept a STD panel, which is far more damaging socially if it were to get out that you had one than if you smoked a blunt while pregnant, then why would you refuse a Drug Screen? It's just you being rude to the staff.

Depending on where you are at, it could be a matter of law. In some states, in the United States of America, and especially in the south and bible belt part of the country, there are laws on the state books, that pretty much means if a woman is preg and has taken any illegal drugs and has a miscarriage, then the woman can be charged with and imprisoned for murder. You may want to look into that, where you are at, and ask, why the drug testing and see what the information is used for.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Good for you!

As I'm in the minority for agreeing with you, I hope you follow up on this.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: dawnstar
.

seems to me like you are causing the stress yourself
could have just signed the form and got your care and been done. you know, do it for the kid type of deal.

this is not directed at you but how many people fail a test for a single poppyseed muffin?
what does ibuprofin throw a false positive for?

originally posted by: lovebeck


Trust me, I am well aware of how and how often things change in medicine, but claiming they drug test everyone in every setting is justnot the way things are done.

yeah well i didnt say they test everyone now did i
i said i have had it happen to me

and if it is logical to test a person in pain management cause they want to make sure they are on the level then it is logical to test a prego lady to make sure she aint gonna have meth baby

a reply to: TinySickTears
this is just a small list, I've seen longer lists...

Ibuprofen Marijuana, barbiturates, or benzodiazepines
Cold remedies Amphetamine
Hay fever remedies Amphetamine
Nasal decongestants Amphetamine
Diet pills Amphetamine
Sleep aids Barbiturates
Poppy seeds* Opiates/morphine
Hemp food products** Marijuana

health.cvs.com...

and I posted a link to one story where the mom ate whatever it was with the poppy seeds at the hospital, and well, she was put through hell and I believe she lost custody of her son...who wasn't the child she was carrying.

a reply to: dawnstar

Read your own source about eating poppy seeds and hemp oil:

However, testing can discern poppy seeds from opiates.

So yeah, the old "I ate a poppy seed muffin" doesn't work.

All the others test positive because...That's what they are...

The doctor would still need to know if you are taking any of those and how concentrated they are in your body.