So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

jane doe refuses to sign the form.
jane doe has something wrong with her(or child) but does not know
something bad happens to child that could have been prevented
jane doe never forgives herself

The Jane Doe in my example was an actual drug addict. I'm asking how the doctor can be held liable if a person refuses a test? Plausible deniability. He can't be held to standards like he knew what was going on, if the patient refuses a test that would have shown what was going on. And it's on record, clearly, that they refused.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

It's amazing to me the stupid crap people say to justify this type of orwellian behavior. Don't you think it's odd that a person can go and terminate a pregnancy at your stage and it's perfectly legal, but if you test positive for weed, they will call cps on you?

a reply to: JacKatMtn

Medicare systems now have a new "per diem" standard that rates payments based on a variety of Joint Commission standards, the number of x-rays received, the levels of radiation dosed to the patient, (yes, if a patient has too many x-rays -based on Obamacare- the doctor won't get paid) the types of treatments given, the blood tests, urine tests, provided, etc.

You are quite right.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
One more point to make for the supporters of this BS:

This is my third child. The other 2 are perfectly healthy. This is the first time I've ever seen a form/policy like this. 2 other times (without such a form/policy) and everything went just fine....

Just make a note in my chart that I refuse and keep on with the care.

VOLUNTARY CONSENT

Withholding treatment if I don't sign makes it 'under duress' or 'coerced'. Just sayin'.

i want to disclose that i dont really care what you do.
that said, just cause your first 2 are healthy dont mean this one is
also, policies change.
i have to do things a certain way as of jan 1st as far as my meds go that i didnt have to do last year. last year i had to do things i didnt have to do 3 years ago.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Here is an inquiry letter I just sent to the Medical Board for my state:

Today I reported to my OBGYN office for my first prenatal visit. Among the packet of paperwork was a consent form. The consent form was for random drug testing, a positive result being reported to CPS and other authorities. There were also consent forms for STD information being reported, to entities such as CDC, which I completely understand the importance of and agreed to.

I took exception to the drug testing request and refused to sign it. For the record, I do not use drugs or alcohol. As a matter of fact, I stopped taking all (legal) medications as soon as I found out I was pregnant. I used to be a police officer and as a police officer I couldn't search a house, a car or even someone's pockets without at least probable cause- if not a warrant. As a police officer I could ask someone's consent to search and it was their constitutional right to refuse. And such refusal DID NOT constitute probable cause to conduct a search anyway.

Like I said, I filled out all their other paperwork and consented to several other things that I didn't take as a violation of my rights. I was led back to an examining room and told that the doctor would refuse to see me if I did not sign this form. So refusing to sign a consent form means they can refuse treatment? And prenatal care at that? At that point IF I signed it it would be under coercion and not voluntary at all. Right?

I still refused to sign and left the office. I had already left a urine sample and if they (illegally and without consent) tested it for drugs they would have found it to be clean.

I am writing this letter to inquire about the legality of this practice. I'm not going to waste your time with a complaint if what they did was perfectly legal, but if this practice IS legal, it is seriously flawed from a constitutional standpoint.

Personally, I am livid. I am being refused prenatal care because I refuse to submit to an invasion of my privacy. And people will argue "What about the baby? It's for the baby's safety." And like I told the nurse- if there were some sort of probable cause it would be a whole other can of worms. If I showed up to the appointment intoxicated, if my teeth were falling out and I wasn't gaining weight, if I had visible track marks... THAT would be something. But not even that, they want my VOLUNTARY CONSENT to randomly test? And refusing to voluntarily consent means they refuse to see me? So now the fetus is being refused treatment by a doctor? Wow, THAT'S a great policy for the safety of the fetus.

OP, while you do have some form of a valid point, I really have to question your intentions or how much thought you really put into the health of your unborn. Are you aware that many people have tested positive for drugs that they didn't even know they were in their system? Because of contaminated food, drinks, environments, objects, ect. Things you would not possibly know are in your body and harming your baby unless you tested for these substances.

I could understand if you weren't pregnent and were denied - but you are.

My 2 cents, don't take offense.

For my COLD and possibly evil personal opinion though, I think you were positive for drugs, knew you were, and this post is your own personal way of justifying and dealing with the situation.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Pap smears look for abnormal or precancerous cells. Prescribing birth control actually has nothing to do with that. Anything they need to know, they can find in blood work, and usually they don't even check that.

That's kind of my point. They tell you you HAVE to do something, when really you don't.

Don't even get me started on the fact that if the doctor prescribed you medicine or other medical practice without knowing what substances (illegal or not) are in your body (like nicotine) there would be serious consequences, not only for the doctor, but for your child.

Think

I hope for the sake of the health of your unborn, you stop using your child to protest with - and protest this situation after your beautiful child has been born into this world.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
I'm asking how the doctor can be held liable if a person refuses a test? Plausible deniability. .

i dont know but i also dont blame the doc for covering their ass either.
people sign consent to treat forms and liability release forms all the time. then they go on to sue the doc.

maybe if society in general wasnt sue crazy doctors wouldnt need to cover their asses like this.
in 2016 though it is the world we live in.


i can just see a person going to a doc and not disclosing they are on a drug(legal or illegal) and then having the doc prescribe something that causes some reaction and then the person sues the doc.
totally within the realm of possibility.

its like some #in burglar falling on your lawn on the way out your door with your # and then suing you

a reply to: DBCowboy

The so called "death panels" from pre passage of the ACA are just warming up?

originally posted by: theySeeme
My 2 cents, don't take offense.

For my COLD and possibly evil personal opinion though, I think you were positive for drugs, knew you were, and this post is your own personal way of justifying and dealing with the situation.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. No matter how dumb it is.

I already left a urine sample before I had the discussion with the nurse. The only 'drug' I've taken is Zyrtec and it's approved for pregnancy. I'd bet money that they tested my urine after I left, just out of curiosity. And they would have found nothing. And if they had found something, they would have called CPS. And it wouldn't matter how illegally they obtained their information, CPS and the law would be up my ass.

I'm not even worrying about it, because it's a non-issue. I'm worrying about my civil rights and the fact that doctors can hold your treatment hostage if you don't consent to unconstitutional violations.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

the dr has rights as well as you. you can choose to have a child, choose to go to a dr that requires a piss test, choose to decline and choose to birth the baby how you feel is within your civil liberties. freedom.

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
a reply to: DBCowboy

The so called "death panels" from pre passage of the ACA are just warming up?

Oh, they have been up and running for quite some time.

You should look up "swing bed" a term used in a hospital. You can have a patient admitted/discharged, re-admitted/discharged again, re-admitted again, all without leaving the bed based on paperwork.

For the most part, hospitals actually "cheat" the system so they can provide care that they normally wouldn't be allowed to (under Obamacare).

Hospitals have had to "game the system" just to provide the care that they used to without all the government oversight.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

i dont know but i also dont blame the doc for covering their ass either.
people sign consent to treat forms and liability release forms all the time. then they go on to sue the doc.

maybe if society in general wasnt sue crazy doctors wouldnt need to cover their asses like this.
in 2016 though it is the world we live in.


i can just see a person going to a doc and not disclosing they are on a drug(legal or illegal) and then having the doc prescribe something that causes some reaction and then the person sues the doc.
totally within the realm of possibility.

its like some #in burglar falling on your lawn on the way out your door with your # and then suing you

I agree. But the point of their form wasn't concern with possible reactions, it was all about throwing you to CPS. It specifically said so.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

the more i think about it the drug test thing before treatment is nothing new.
ive been to the ER before for migraines(chronic) and back pain(chronic before my disc replacement) and they required a test before treatment.
i am in pain management now and on my very first day i had to sign forms stating i would consent to drug tests( i signed but have never been tested) and stating i would visit the same pharmacy and had to provide their name and address.
so yeah

originally posted by: theySeeme
Don't even get me started on the fact that if the doctor prescribed you medicine or other medical practice without knowing what substances (illegal or not) are in your body (like nicotine) there would be serious consequences, not only for the doctor, but for your child.

Think

I hope for the sake of the health of your unborn, you stop using your child to protest with - and protest this situation after your beautiful child has been born into this world.

Funny, when I went to the midwife for the last baby she didn't do any of this crap and everything was fine. She even let me do my own urine stick (for protein, glucose, etc.) and read the results to her. It's totally possibly to provide quality care without this nonsense.

Even though I have no choice but to have a c-section, looks like I may be going back to her for prenatal care.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

maybe the dr has seen how drug mothers have impacted numerous children's lives and put it upon themselves to report the mom to protect the kid. anyway do as you will. good day.

a reply to: TinySickTears

And I've thought about that scenario too. The problem with pain management patients is it's SOOO rife with abuse. They (not you) will get meds and then not even take them so they can sell them.

It's BS to test you too, but I can understand why.

And I would consent to testing if they had some REASON to do it. Just because I exist, isn't a good enough reason.

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

So cops are coming through your neighborhood searching all the houses for contraband. You would have no problem with them searching yours? If you're a law abiding citizen, so you have nothing to worry about right? They're doing it to find the real criminals. For your safety.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
They (not you) will get meds and then not even take them so they can sell them.

It's BS to test you too, but I can understand why.

And I would consent to testing if they had some REASON to do it. Just because I exist, isn't a good enough reason.

and pregnant women(not you) do drugs. that is probably their reason for testing huh.
i think that is also the reason

either way.
good luck with the birth. im sure that as the years go by all of us are going to have to 'consent' to more and more # if we want to see a doc