The end of the protestant heresy

a reply to: piney

So you think protestants are heretical? What a load of crap. Good luck seeking comfort in the writings of Nostradamus. Sectarianism on ATS? Sheesh...

originally posted by: djz3ro
"The protestant churches are also catholic...."
Err, pardon me? How does that work then?

Easy. The word catholic has two meanings, which I would distinguish as "catholic" and "Catholic".
To be "catholic" is to be all-embracing, general. As used from the early days, the expression "catholic church" embraces the whole body of Christians holding to the faith.
To be "Catholic", as far as I can gather, means to belong to the more restricted community of people who give their allegiance to the Pope. It is a more modern usage.
The policy of Catholic teaching is to gloss over the difference and take it for granted that only Catholics can be catholic. That is not true.
Of course Protestant churches are not Catholic, but that does not stop them from being catholic.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: hellobruce

The protestant churches are also catholic....

Err, pardon me? How does that work then?

So you have never heard of the Nicene Creed? Never said it?

a reply to: DISRAELI

Modern usage? Hardly

For 1500 years, THE church, founded by Jesus Christ was The Catholic Church. One...Holy...catholic...and Apostolic. The Four marks of the church. It's One church. It is certainly Holy, it is universal, and has apostolic succession going back to the 12 apostles.
The Catholic Church has existed for 2000 years. Heretical sects broke off, "protesting" (rightly so) the whacky corrupt church of the 16th century. Simony (a mortal sin) was rampant as funds were raised to rebuild a disintegrating St. Peter's Basilica. Salvation is not for sale. Luther made some excellent points.

Ignatius of Antioch,(a pupil of the apostle John) writing to the church in Smyrna: "wherever the bishop (of Rome) shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is The Catholic Church". (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8)

Catholic Church- 2000 years in existence. One.
Protesting heretics- 450 years old. 40,000+ denominations, all with their own versions.

An excellent resource should you be interested in learning more: William A. Jurgens; "The Faith Of The Early Fathers"

originally posted by: Ignatian
For 1500 years, THE church, founded by Jesus Christ was The Catholic Church.

No, the church founded by Christ is the catholic church. See my distinction in the previous post.
As someone has just reminded us, it is defined formally by acceptance of the Nicene Creed.

Gradually, over time, it has broken up into visible fragments, and one of those fragments is claiming exclusive use of the adjective. The rest of us catholics deny that claim.
It is possible to be a democrat without being a Democrat, it is possible to be a republican without being a Republican, and it is possible to be a catholic without being a Catholic.

even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church". (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8)

Exectly my point. Christ is here among the Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, and therefore the church is present also.
If we belong to Christ, then we belong to the church. That is the only definition we need.

a reply to: piney

Is the pope a catholic it's a funny hat he weirs is sung around some football /soccer matches i hear


Something for you to think about

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
A fake "prophet" who wrote a lot of babbling nonsense that people twist and interpret to mean whatever they want it to mean should not be given credence over the Word of God, by someone who claims to follow said Word. Nothing hypocritical about that at all. Well, maybe from the OP, who uses non-Scriptural writing to talk about others being "heretics".

if a fake prophet wrote all of this feces, what is the true word of god, because apparently I followed the wrong one for many years. Every Christian I have ever met has violated the 10 Commandments, except one, and he was a good guy, but had a KKK robe and hood in his closet. My wife and I were swingers, people have sex with someone else's wife on Saturday night, and teaching Sunday school, sunday morning. Apparently Christians have no morals, and we are all better off being Pagan.

I think you missed my point here. Nostradamus is a false prophet. His writings are twisted and translated to match all sorts of things, and usually are far too vague to pin down. Why anyone ever thought he as accurate, I can't imagine.

As for your personal experiences, maybe meet some more sincere Christians? Christians aren't perfect, by a long shot, but the ones I know don't go around killing or stealing or the like. The simple truth, though, is that we all do sin, and that's the point. We aren't supposed to be perfect; we are supposed to accept that we can't be, and that His payment for our sins is what saves us. That isn't an excuse to sin, of course, and we should do the best we can to avoid it, but even the best of us will fail at some point or another. "For all have sinned" is a fact.

I did somewhat miss your point, I don't buy into the Nostradamus nonsense either.

As far as my personal experiences, I actively participated in the Christian faith, for about the first half of my 55 year. I participated in several protestant denominations as well as catholicism, have lived in several different parts of the country, and to this day, have fundie family members that are in my life daily. I would agree that most don't go around killing and stealing, but many I know or have known, do not live a godly life, or even attempt to once they exit the doors of the church.

The ones on the adult web site actually caused my already somewhat jaded jaw to drop.

a reply to: ketsuko

I am talking about 'definitions'. The "DEFINITION" of "catholic."

And by the way, I am a baptized member of the Episcopal Church.....making me a "christian".
The Episcopal Church as part of 'one holy, catholic, and apostolic church'.

In that sense, the term 'catholic' means UNIVERSAL.

When people disparage "Catholics", they are talking specifically about Roman Catholicism (and erroneously saying "they are not Christians"). The Episcopal Church (Church of England) is VERY, VERY similar.

Whether people sitting in the pews "believe" the stuff or not is subjective, and I don't want to get into "nominal Christianity" with you.

I know that I live by the Golden Rule (what Jesus taught). And I know that (legally, in terms of religion) "the church" has already 'saved me' from whatever nonsense condemnation any of you can postulate. I have not been "excommunicated."

Any more than someone can deny I am an American, they can not deny that I am Christian.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: DISRAELI

Catholic Church- 2000 years in existence. One.
Protesting heretics- 450 years old. 40,000+ denominations, all with their own versions.

An excellent resource should you be interested in learning more: William A. Jurgens; "The Faith Of The Early Fathers"

While I agree with 40,000+ denominations, with widely varying beliefs. The Catholic church is/was not quite as universal and all together as you would like to believe. You fail to mention the orthodox churchs, gnostics, etc. You have also left out the period of the black popes.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

some figures had miraculous or virgin births, were sons of supreme gods, were born on December 25, had stars point to their birthplaces, were visited by shepherds and magi as infants, fled from death as children, exhibited traits of divinity in childhood, spent time in the desert, traveled as they taught, had disciples, performed miracles, were persecuted, were crucified, descended into hell after death, appeared as resurrections or apparitions, or ascended into heaven. Graves also devotes chapters to the pagan roots of baptism and the eucharist, and concludes that Jesus was not a real person.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors


The tooth fairy and Santa are made up as well

Gods chosen celebrated the new year in march the 20th

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, it depends on the person. Not everyone who pays lip service to something is what they say they are.

And, another thought on this declaration of yours.....

several years ago, I had a colleague (in a service-focused non-profit based around helping first time parents navigate parenthood)......who was from a tiny little town in the Bible Belt.....

one day we were driving to a conference in a distant location, and she asked me, "Are you a Christian?"
And I said, "yes, I am. I was brought up in the Episcopal Church - baptism, choir, confirmation, wedding. All of that."

And she said (AND I QUOTE) - "Episcopal? So, you're not a Christian."

In her mind, only non-denominational churches (like, Church of Christ, for example) counted.

NONSENSE.

A "real Christian" is one who behaves according to the recorded words of "Jesus" - which amount to The Golden Rule, and that alone. And also to us all being equally part of the Divine.

I believe that. So you, nor anyone else, can tell me, "I'm not a Christian." I try to do what he really said.
I don't add 'gravy' to the meal. I just absorb what HE SAID.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Friend, you are 'preaching to the Choir' here.
But, I guess congrats for posting things that any person educated in comparative religion already knows.

Gold Star for your essay.

And furthermore!!!! For any interested and/or confused readers......

when I say (and I do), that I am "not a Christian" - I mean it in the sense that I don't believe in the resurrection, or the 'sacrifice', or that "believing those stories" is incumbent upon me.

Truth be told, I don't want to be associated with modern-day self-styled "Christians" who know little about their own faith, and even less about the history of it.

Jesus was a man. He taught important lessons. He was killed for teaching those things. He did not "rise from the dead," and he is not "God" any more than all of us are.

The saddest part is that self-styled "Christians" too often think that unless one says "Yeah, born of a virgin, suffered on the cross, died and rose again" they are not included in his oh-so-exclusive "fan club roster."

So - am I a Christian?

Inasmuch as I believe his lessons were applicable, yes.

Insofar as "Do I go to a Christian church and believe the fairy tales?" Nope.
So
much
nope.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs





Thanks BuzzWigs some people get my humor or is it humour

This year i am going to be a Orthadox Christian and celebrate Christmas on Jan 7th let of fireworks on the 14th

Just to be friggin awkward

a reply to: stonerwilliam

You're talking about "twelfth night"....
that is Jan 5.
It has nothing to do with "Jan 12".

"Twelfth night" refers to how many nights of (and after) Christmas = Epiphany.

"On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me......"
partridges, you know......

Too many people have no idea what "twelfth night" is.
Only people educated in liberal arts, literature, and comparative religion can understand it.

Shakespeare's 'Twelfth Night'. Story of Viola.........washed ashore on a strange island after a shipwreck......

separated from her twin, and has to dress as her brother and impersonate that brother in order to get attention at the local courtier's court. etc

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

nope this is what i am talking about

www.timeanddate.com...

Many Orthodox Christians annually celebrate Christmas Day on or near January 7

Christmas on January 7 is also known as Old Christmas Day. Eleven days were dropped to make up for the calendar discrepancy that accumulated with Julian calendar when England and Scotland switched from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752. Many people, especially in rural areas, did not accept the loss of these 11 days and preferred to use the Julian calendar.

That is how i was raised

Orthodox Christians who use the older version of the Julian calendar mark this occasion on January 14 in the Gregorian calendar.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

LOL!! okay!

See how messed up all of the disparate "denominations" are???

o_O

I'm very sure about what I was taught growing up, too.

The fact that what you and I learned are different ideas 'accepted by some but not all' speaks volumes.......

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

LOL it just goes to show how stupid all the arguments are / same story different teller

My folks were hard core no cooking on the Sabbath or even using money /no radio /tv

I went to work on a sunday when i was 17 , came home to find my bags at the door

Moved in with my 26 year old g/f ye that showed me

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Then in October out come the fireworks again / getting in touch with my 4 by 2 side

www.chabad.org...

Just to confuse the locals and make them think they are under attack

I don't see how anyone could go to one of those dogma factorys.
I'll find God and define him as I believe.
We have been LIED to far too long.