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Fascism is Not Right Wing, it is socialist.

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posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 03:14 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Irrelevant. We're still talking about fascism and how it's still not left-wing.




posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 03:18 AM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
So, the Nazis were National Socialists. Does that mean that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Republic?

Guess America is the same as NK then.


I wonder why the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party became the Communist Party in 1912?...

I wonder why the German Social Democratic Party split into the Independent Social Democratic Party, and the Spartacus League in 1914. In 1918 the Spartacus League became the German Communist Party.

I wonder why the majority of the members of the Social Democratic Czechoslavonic party in Austria formed the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia in 1921...

I wonder why in 1918 members of the Social Democratic Party of Finland split to form the Communist Party of Finland...

I wonder why the Social Democratic Party of Japan is also known as the Japan Socialist Party...

Look at every Social Democratic Party in the past, and even among some in the present, and you will see that either it became a Communist party, or a Socialist one...

Social Democracy = a branch of socialist doctrine.



edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

Irrelevant. We're still talking about fascism and how it's still not left-wing.



It's very relevant, more so after some of these members also claiming that "Stalin was far right"...
Stalin and Marxism: A Research Note

When socialist regimes turn dictatorial, the left to this day claims "but they were right-wingers".

Even the leader of the Communist Party in Germany, Ernst Thälmann, claimed that Trotsky was a fascist when Trotsky stated "...The German CP must make a bloc with the social democracy..."

Left wing = a bigger government, state control over means of production, in general higher taxes, state control/heavy regulations on businesses, state control on healthcare, state control on everything for the common good and more government spending, mostly in favor of state control of firearms...

Right wing = smaller government, lower taxes, less regulations/less state control on businesses, reduced government spending, oppose state control on healthcare, oppose state control on firearms, oppose state control for the good of all"...

Hitler implemented policies that made Germany a welfare state = socialist.

Hitler implemented nationalization of all trusts, and communalization of large stores = socialist.

Hitler, and the NAZIS were extreme environmentalists = socialist.

HItler used nationalized healthcare to exterminate minorities for the good of the majority of Germans = socialist.

Hitler and the NAZIS were "socialist extremists".


edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Left wing = a bigger government, state control over means of production, in general higher taxes, state control/heavy regulations on businesses, state control on healthcare, state control on everything for the common good and more government spending, mostly in favor of state control of firearms...

Right wing = smaller government, lower taxes, less regulations/less state control on businesses, reduced government spending, oppose state control on healthcare, oppose state control on firearms, oppose state control for the good of all"...


State your sources for this please.

Not interested in more of your straw-men, red herrings or appeals to the dictionary ... state a rational, reasonable, accepted source of information that corroborates these statements.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
So, the Nazis were National Socialists. Does that mean that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Republic?

Guess America is the same as NK then.


I wonder why the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party became the Communist Party in 1912?...

I wonder why the German Social Democratic Party split into the Independent Social Democratic Party, and the Spartacus League in 1914. In 1918 the Spartacus League became the German Communist Party.

I wonder why the majority of the members of the Social Democratic Czechoslavonic party in Austria formed the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia in 1921...

I wonder why in 1918 members of the Social Democratic Party of Finland split to form the Communist Party of Finland...

I wonder why the Social Democratic Party of Japan is also known as the Japan Socialist Party...

Look at every Social Democratic Party in the past, and even among some in the present, and you will see that either it became a Communist party, or a Socialist one...

Social Democracy = a branch of socialist doctrine.




I wonder if you're ever going to do some basic research on all of the above.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 04:33 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
State your sources for this please.

Not interested in more of your straw-men, red herrings or appeals to the dictionary ... state a rational, reasonable, accepted source of information that corroborates these statements.




The fundamental differences between left-wing and right-wing ideologies center around the the rights of individuals vs. the power of the government. Left-wing beliefs are liberal in that they believe society is best served with an expanded role for the government. People on the right believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are paramount and the role — and especially the power — of the government is minimized.

Examples of an expanded role for the government include entitlement programs such as social security and Medicare, Medicaid, universal healthcare, food stamps, free public education, unemployment benefits, strong environmental laws, and other regulations on industries. Right wing ideology would favor market-based solutions to the issues that these government programs aim to tackle. For example, encouraging a freer marketplace for healthcare, driven by consumer choice to drive down costs. Or privately held retirement accounts like 401(k) plans instead of government-guaranteed Social Security.
...

www.diffen.com...


Evaluate political positions.

Those on the left may support:
social welfare programs (food stamps, homeless shelters, unemployment benefits)
religious freedom and the separation of church and state
higher or more "progressive" taxes
environmentalism
trade protectionism
expansion of government into new areas
trade unions and industry regulations
social change or social justice
Those on the right may support:
reform of government-funded welfare programs
traditional or religious values, allowing those institutions to replace government services
lower or flatter taxation
international free-trade agreements
limiting the scope of government
reducing regulations on industry
religious liberty
...
Look at the language they use to describe themselves.

Leftists may describe themselves as: progressives, communists, socialists, or liberals
Rightists may describe themselves as conservatives, libertarians, laissez-faire capitalists, or classic liberals.
Both may call their opponents fascists. Some liberals believe Fascism is a far-right ideology, although fascists often describe themselves as the "revolutionary center".
...

www.wikihow.com...'re-Right-Wing-or-Left-Wing


The following is specially important.


...
Left-wing: Associated Political Parties: Democratic Party, Green, Socialist

Right-wing: Associated Political Parties: Republican Party; Libertarians; Constitutional Party

Left-wing Ideologies: Social Democracy; Federalism; Socialism, Communism; Collectivism; Marxism
Right-wing ideology: Capitalism; Conservatism
...

www.diffen.com...

edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 05:14 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

I wonder if you're ever going to do some basic research on all of the above.


I wonder why the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party became the Communist Party in 1912?...

The Bolshevik-Menshevik Split

Of course, we can't leave out the "communist" claim...

The London Congress of the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party

I wonder why the German Social Democratic Party split into the Independent Social Democratic Party, and the Spartacus League in 1914. In 1918 the Spartacus League became the German Communist Party.


...
However, its vote in favour of war credits in 1914 and Germany’s disastrous fate in World War I led to an internal split, with the centrists under Karl Kautsky forming the Independent Social Democratic Party and the left under Rosa Luxemburg and Liebknecht forming the Spartacus League, which in December 1918 became the Communist Party of Germany (KPD).

www.britannica.com...

I wonder why the majority of the members of the Social Democratic Czechoslavonic party in Austria formed (should have been joined) the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia in 1921...


...
After the defeat of the February demonstration, thousands of workers broke with the Social Democratic Party, whose leaders had pursued a policy of capitulation, and joined the CPA.
...

encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...

I wonder why in 1918 members of the Social Democratic Party of Finland split to form the Communist Party of Finland...


Warning! The following article is from The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979). It might be outdated or ideologically biased.

Social Democratic Party of Germany

(Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands; SPD), a party originated in 1869 at a congress in Eisenach, where the League of German Workers’ Associations (founded 1863) and leftist elements of the Lassallean General German Workers’ Association (founded 1863) merged to form the Social Democratic Workers Party of Germany (the Eisenachers), which basically adhered to scientific socialism and proletarian internationalism. A. Bebel and W. Liebknecht, the leaders of the Eisenachers, sought a counter-weight to the Lassalleans, who tended to support Bismarcks policy of unifying Germanyfrom above,” in reliance on Prussian militarism; they therefore followed the lead of Marx and Engels and attempted to move the German workers movement onto the path of struggle for the revolutionary unification of Germanyfrom below and, thereafter, onto the path of struggle for socialism.
...

encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...

I wonder why the Social Democratic Party of Japan is also known as the Japan Socialist Party...


...
Within a year the LDP had returned to government as the largest party in a coalition with the Social Democratic Party of Japan (formerly the Japan Socialist Party) and the small Sakigake Party. The LDP wooed the Social Democrats into this coalition by giving the office of prime minister to the Social Democrats’ leader, Murayama Tomiichi. Following Murayama’s resignation in 1996, the LDP once more took control of the prime minister’s office.
...

www.britannica.com...

The Social Democratic Party of Japan has exchanged it's name to "Japan Socialist Party" on several occasions.

Look at every Social Democratic Party in the past, and even among some in the present, and you will see that either it became a Communist party, or a Socialist one...

Social Democracy = a branch of socialist doctrine.



social democracy
noun
Simple Definition of social democracy
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words

: a political movement that uses principles of democracy to change a capitalist country to a socialist one

: a country that uses both capitalist and socialist practices


www.merriam-webster.com...



edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That still doesn't make the NSDP socialist or democratic.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Round objects. In the UK the Social Democratic Party was formed in 1981, as a centrist party. It later merged with the Liberal Party, also a centrist party. That's just one example, but as you claimed that all social democratic parties became communist ones, that means that I only need one example to prove you wrong yet again.
By the way, your constant spouting of the fact that Trotsky was proclaimed a fascist by various people is laughably wrong. During the purges in Soviet Russia Trotsky was constantly proclaimed to be a fascist, as Stalin wanted to demonise him.
(Yawn)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You might as well be quoting Conservapedia.

Your sources are user-created, non-referenced, and comprised entirely of personal opinion.

Like what you are promoting here ...

First of all, no actual human person's beliefs, understandings or positions identify 100% with artificial political distinctions like "left" or "right" or "fascist" or "socialist." You're merely spouting what your own ideology holds about other ideologies ... not facts.

Second of all, you continue to cherry-pick what sources you do bother to use, and only cite those pieces that seem to support your argument.

Third, nothing about the topic is as simplistic as you are arguing. Not socialism, Nazism, Communism, left-wing, right-wing, Democrats, Republicans, none of it. I myself am "left wing" (i.e. I believe that the only valid use of State power is to promote the general welfare of the American people. I do not believe in the use of State power for the reinforcement of the State or those in control of the State. I am an American, the limits of our Government's powers are codified in our Constitution, and in the body of legislation judicial precedent that has followed the system that document created, beginning, middle and end of story.)

Now, keep cutting-and-pasting and limply trying to make a ludicrous case out of your stale picked cherries.

Fascism is not socialism. The left-wing is not evil. And the right-wing in the US certainly does not stand for individual liberty (except for the moneyed few.)

Right wingers only believe in small-government when regarding the types of programs (social safety net, education, environmental protection) they don't like and are all in for standing behind police overreach, corporate welfare, funding the bloated industrial complex and the corporate war-machine ... etc.
edit on 30-12-2015 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And I said this way back on page 16.

Unless people are willing to accept that right wing does not automatically equal freedom, these threads will always end up like this.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You use one link that is talking about an economic scale, and another link that is using a social scale. Notice the one does not discuss social issues and the other does not discuss economic issues? Just use the right phrase.

You hate Authoritarian left but you like Authoritarian Right. After all, the "right wing" of the USA is Authoritarian Right.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Do people still even read Conservapedia?



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Round objects. In the UK the Social Democratic Party was formed in 1981, as a centrist party. It later merged with the Liberal Party, also a centrist party. That's just one example, but as you claimed that all social democratic parties became communist ones, that means that I only need one example to prove you wrong yet again.
By the way, your constant spouting of the fact that Trotsky was proclaimed a fascist by various people is laughably wrong. During the purges in Soviet Russia Trotsky was constantly proclaimed to be a fascist, as Stalin wanted to demonise him.
(Yawn)



The Social Democratic Party of Britain merged with the Liberal Party in 1988 to form the "Liberal Democrat Party" which is a "center-left" party...


Liberal Democrats, British political party founded in 1988 through a merger of the Liberal Party and the Social Democratic Party, or SDP. In the middle ground between the dominant Labour Party and the Conservative Party, the Liberal Democrats occupy a centre-left, libertarian position.

www.britannica.com...

Even back when it was simply the Social Democratic Party it was still "center-left". What they wanted was to end what was perceived as governments changing from far left to far right. Far left in this case would be communism.

Social Democracy even in Britain means...


Social democracy


Read View All Media (2) View History Edit Feedback

Social democracy, political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes. Based on 19th-century socialism and the tenets of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, social democracy shares common ideological roots with communism but eschews its militancy and totalitarianism. Social democracy was originally known as revisionism because it represented a change in basic Marxist doctrine, primarily in the former’s repudiation of the use of revolution to establish a socialist society.

www.britannica.com...

The problem is that Social Democrats seem unable to understand that once socialism sets in, it is an open door for communists to take over. It might take longer in some countries than on others but it always happens.


edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Left wing = a bigger government, state control over means of production, in general higher taxes, state control/heavy regulations on businesses, state control on healthcare, state control on everything for the common good and more government spending, mostly in favor of state control of firearms...

Right wing = smaller government, lower taxes, less regulations/less state control on businesses, reduced government spending, oppose state control on healthcare, oppose state control on firearms, oppose state control for the good of all"...

Ah, you finally define your left and right for us... in the context of American parties. Americentrism at its finest.

You really haven't looked up what left and right mean, have you? People have linked the information to you and told you directly a number of times.

Hmm, let's look at your definition of right-wing.
Smaller government? Reagan increased its size substantially, and it shrunk after he left.

Lower taxes? ...did you completely forget 2012, where Republicans clamored for expanding the tax base; aka raising taxes on poor/elderly/etc? Where Mitt Romney bragged about his 14% tax rate (I wish I paid that little)?

Less regulations? Republicans keep trying to get rid of Planned Parenthood and restrict women's rights to their bodies.

Reduced government spending? G. W. Bush oversaw a huge budget expansion over his tenure; one only matched by FDR during World War II. Hell, Reagan almost tripled the debt during his term.

Healthcare? Maybe you don't know about the ACA's precursor.

Gun control? Possibly the thing you're most right on; that's not saying much, though... Republicans and Democrats share views on some forms of gun control. Others, not so much.

Common good? I already told you that Reagan and Bush said just such a thing
edit on 18Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:37:05 -0600America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago12 by Greven because: readability



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
...
You hate Authoritarian left but you like Authoritarian Right. After all, the "right wing" of the USA is Authoritarian Right.


Stop puting words in my mouth. We are not discussing neither my political affiliation or my political ideas. You obviously have no idea what my political ideas are about, and this is not a thread about that so stop using red herrings, and trying to defame my character by making false statements.

This thread is about whether or not Hitler, and Germany were socialist or not. Hitler took over at the time when "social democracy" was in Germany and the German people had a "progressive mindset" which allowed Hitler and his extreme left wing policies taking over.


edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: Greven

For crying out loud... What is the topic of this thread?... Why the continual attempts to change subjects to American politics?... Of course nothing but a red herring...

Social Democracy existed in Germany when Hitler took power. Hitler's policies were "national socialist".

He wasn't a right-winger, and his policies were not right-wing.

Is nationalization right-wing or left-wing?...

Is "communalization of large stores" right-wing or left-wing?...

Is the common good before individual good right-wing or left-wing?...

Is environmental extremism right-wing, or is it extreme left-wing?...

Hitler used nationalized healthcare to exterminate the jewish people and other minorities. Is nationalized healthcare left-wing or right-wing?...

In fact, and again...


National Health Care: Medicine in Germany, 1918-1945


Does the modern bureaucratization of medicine risk a return to the horrors of national socialist medicine?

Marc S. Micozzi M.D.

Monday, November 01, 1993

...
The German social insurance and health care system began in the 1880s under Bismarck. Ironically, it was part of Bismarcksanti-socialistlegislation, adopted under the theory that a little socialism would prevent the rise of a more virulent socialism.
...
In the few years available to the social reformers, they had remarkable success. But in connection with these reforms the doctors role changed from that of advocate, adviser, and partner of the patient to a partner of the state.
...
With the world economic crisis of 1929, welfare state expenditures had to be reduced for housing, nutrition, support payments, recreation and rehabilitation, and maternal and child health. What remained of the humanistic goals of reform were state mechanisms for inspection and regulation of public health and medical practice. Economic efficiency became the major concern, and health care became primarily a question of cost-benefit analysis. Under the socialist policies of the period, this analysis was necessarily applied to the selection of strong persons, deemed worthy of support, and the elimination of weak andunproductivepeople. The scientific underpinning of cost-benefit analyses to political medical care was provided by the new fields of genetics and eugenics.
...

fee.org...

Hitler turned the German people against the Jewish people by claiming "the Jewish people have no respect for animal life in a true Germanic sense"... Animal life was seen as having more rights than the Jewish people. Is the concept that animal life is more important than people right-wing or extreme left-wing?...

Stop running in circles and answer those questions.


edit on 30-12-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Hitler didn't have extreme left wing policies. He had extreme right (authoritarian) views and slightly right economic views. He implemented slightly left economic policies as that was the best way to keep the people happy.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko

He had the Marx 10 Planks nailed down pretty good.




posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
For crying out loud... What is the topic of this thread?...

The same strawman that you always parade around.




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