An Unvaccinated Woman's Perspective on the Vaccination Debate

a reply to: cuckooold

I fully understand your concern and if someone had the same wishes I would respect them, no complaints. I'm not too fond of children in any case, I'm afraid. I think the most important thing in any debate or issue is mutual understanding. So thanks for contributing to that.

The fact is that in general a vaccinated population has less prevalence of the diseases they are vaccinated against than the non-vaccinated population. A non-vaccinated population has a higher incidence of these diseases. That you, personally, have enjoyed good health while being non-vaccinated is not really the point. Non vaccinated people who do enjoy good health do so because they are surrounded by people who are vaccinated, thus reducing the chances of their getting these diseases. Had these non vaccinated people been in populations where the preponderance of people were also non vaccinated, the incidence of these diseases would be higher.

As a vaccinated person I couldn't care less whether you are vaccinated or not, despite the so-called "public health cost." I don't understand why vaccinated people would criticize you for not being vaccinated (and I know they often do.) If you die because of it, it's not my problem. It just gets you out of the way and out of the gene pool, which is a very good thing for humanity as a whole. Perhaps someone will nominate you for a Darwin Award.

Yay for you.

a reply to: schuyler

As I am not planning on having offspring, my genes being in or out of the pool has no bearing whatsoever on future generations. I'll be taking them with me when I go, no matter how I die. However, I'd like to posit that as you know nothing about the "worth" of my genes, it would be no greater a service to mankind than if our positions were reversed--in all likelihood we both have average genes.

Thanks for warm sentiments though.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: chr0naut

It is increasingly ineffective if significant numbers do not vaccinate.

Hi chr0naut
Why? Lets assume you've been vaccinated and I haven't, and we're the only two people on this earth. If your vaccine works, then how does me being un-vaccinated degrade your protection?

Lets suppose, entirely hypothetically, that a vaccination is 60% effective in preventing disease and that there is sufficient contact such that any exposed un-vaccinated person will get the disease (a 100% infection probability). If exposure is reduced by half, then it reduces the probability of infection.

If it reducing exposure by 50% reduced the probability of infection by 50%, then vaccination would reduce it to 30%.

Note also that immunizing people has the same effect as reducing exposure because the percentage of people able to transmit the disease would be reduced.

If everyone was vaccinated, the vaccination would be nearly 99.9% effective because both the 'exposure' and actual vaccine effectiveness figures add up.

My granddaughter feels defective since she reacts so badly when she gets a flu shot. She wants to get one just so she is like the other kids even though the doctor told her that she has immunity and does not need the flu shot. He also told her that she could die if she took the flu shot since her reaction was so bad.

But the teachers and school nurses still keep on pushing that she should get one and treat her as a nut when she tells them, they do not believe people can get violently ill from a flu shot....because they have not researched it. One out of twelve people can get a violent reaction from the shots, the trait is genetically passed down so it runs in families. These people are part of the group that does not get vaccinated and they have a legitimate reason for not getting the shot. Not all of those one and twelve have a severe reaction that makes them violently ill though. Some just get a reaction similar to the flu.

originally posted by: rickymouse
My granddaughter feels defective since she reacts so badly when she gets a flu shot. She wants to get one just so she is like the other kids even though the doctor told her that she has immunity and does not need the flu shot. He also told her that she could die if she took the flu shot since her reaction was so bad.

But the teachers and school nurses still keep on pushing that she should get one and treat her as a nut when she tells them, they do not believe people can get violently ill from a flu shot....because they have not researched it. One out of twelve people can get a violent reaction from the shots, the trait is genetically passed down so it runs in families. These people are part of the group that does not get vaccinated and they have a legitimate reason for not getting the shot. Not all of those one and twelve have a severe reaction that makes them violently ill though. Some just get a reaction similar to the flu.

This is a real and valid reason to NOT get a flu shot!

However, not everyone has a rational and valid reason.

a reply to: rickymouse

She should not be pressured to conform, especially when there are health risks. I'm sure it is very frustrating for both her and her parents. The best thing they can do is invite people to educate themselves and ask that their choices are respected. I hope it gets easier for her in the near future!

Well, you are benefitting from "herd immunity".

I am guessing you live in the comfy West, so if you ever travelled to some less wealthy nation then you may reconsider because some of the diseases that have been conquered in the comfy West are pretty nasty and prevalent elsewhere.

originally posted by: Alexithymia
This is my personal account of living as a wholly unvaccinated woman. Not meant to spark a huge debate about the possible links between vaccinations and horrible side effects or possible vaccination-tampering or what have you. Just thought I could provide an interesting point of view that presents a third position you may not have considered.

When I was born, my parents had to go through a lot of paperwork to be able to keep me from being vaccinated, and that was their choice. The government was very reluctant to allow this, and since then they have stopped allowing these special cases--from what I have heard. (Please feel free to verify this and left me know.) Growing up, I never thought much of it. People would get shots at school sometimes, and I didn't. It was never a big deal.

When I got older, people started to question why I didn't get my shots. I trusted that my parents had made the right decision and payed these people little mind. In high school there were kids who hadn't gotten certain shots updated, and were given notices that they would be unable to return to the school until they had received their shots. People would ask me why I wasn't also barred from attending. Because of the paperwork my parents had filed with the government, I was only to be sent home in the case of an outbreak. It seemed to me that people were becoming less understanding and accepting of my parents' alternative standpoint. People would ask me why I didn't get them later when I was no longer a baby, or ask me how on earth my parents could be so inconsiderate of my well-being. They didn't realize that insulting my parents was also an insult to me. Concerned, I approached my then-biology teacher and asked her about my chances of contracting one of these vaccinated diseases. She told me the many outweighed the few, and that getting sick was a remote possibility if I stayed in regions where the diseases were rare/eradicated and vaccines were prevalent, because so few people could be carrying it. This assuaged my concern.

Now I am caught in the middle of a war I do not fight. On one side, anti-vaxxers would have me be their hero. I am fully healthy and have never had a major health issue. In fact, I was often more healthy compared to others--I've never had pneumonia or bronchitis, both very common here. I did have what was probably H1N1 when the big scare happened a while back, and while I was out of commission for a week, being a near-zombie in bed, my vitals were never at alarming levels. It was like any other flu--something I haven't had since being a young child. To anti-vaxxers, I am a success story, proof that you don't need vaccines to survive.

On the other side, I am constantly attacked for being unvaccinated. People try to tell me I am somehow in the wrong, even though it was my parents' decision. They tell me it's sick that I want their children to die of horrible, preventable diseases (which is not true). They want me to feel shameful and dirty and unreasonable. That I am the reason we can't have nice things, as it were. I am seeing more and more almost-attack ads aimed at anti-vaxxers that do make me feel lowly.

It is unfair, on both sides, to force me into a position. I do not have strong feelings on vaccines. I resent the fact that people use me and my story to their own end, and I resent that people make me feel such unpleasant things. I do not plan on ever getting any vaccines, and I do not plan on having children, so the issue isn't really a concern to me--beyond how I am being used. This is my life, and I am living it as I see fit. Being vaccinated or unvaccinated does not define who we are.

Yes, I recognize that not everyone who has an opinion on the subject all think and act the same. My goal is not to make anyone on either side feel bad if they are not like those that I have described. I simply ask that you respect the people out there like me. Let us tell our own stories. Thank you.

If you "resent the fact that people use me and my story to their own end, and I resent that people make me feel such unpleasant things" why are you posting it on a public forum?.

a reply to: Alexithymia
Thank you for posting your story and putting yourself out there in what is such a widely debated topic. For the most part, I have found it better not to discuss vaccines with certain people. There are still some who believe if you are unvaccinated that you carry every disease known to man and are fully capable of spreading it at an alarming rate. Funny how vaccinated people with full belief in them still shy away. I'm a fence sitter on the topic. In that some vaccines have made their way into my household, and others not.
As a child I too grew up in Ontario, and my mother worked in the health care field. I was fully vaccinated, and totally over medicated with antibiotics for every sniffle. My mother outright refused vaccinations from the health unit within the school system, even though they pressured her, and only took me to a family physician for them. Her reasoning was she didn't trust them. I never asked her why, or what she knew that others perhaps did not. Despite having all up to date vaccines, at age 5 I contracted the worst case of whooping cough the doctor had seen. I was out of school for three months,and coupled with tonsillitis and hospitalization to remove them that same year, I almost failed kindergarten for lack of attendance.
When I became a parent, my first child got every vaccine recommended. But nowadays, the vaccine schedule is ridiculous. I can understand the main ones, but a few are just silly imho. When I was a child..Chicken pox was a right of passage. When I got them at age 7, doctor told my mother to go home and have a chicken pox party. Invite all the neighbors over. Was perfectly acceptable then, and causes looks of horror now.
With my own children, I have had one with a bad reaction, one who contracted whooping cough yet it never spread to anyone else, and one who has a severe autoimmune disorder which makes vaccines impossible. So no matter what side of the fence you are on there will be supporters and haters. Like anything else in life, do what's right for you, and don't worry about what other people think.

I was never vaccinated as a child. I would get my routine tetanus and flu shots, and I received my HPV vaccine. I somehow had gone under the radar up until I was 23, when I discovered my childhood doctor did not like vaccinations, and never gave them to me. I was attending college working towards my nursing degree when I was told I needed my proof of immunizations. When I went to the health department, it only showed my tetanus, flu, and HPV vaccines!

As a child I wasn't exactly healthy. I was diagnosed with asthma at the age of 2, and I remember I would get sick 3-4 times a year and end up in the hospital every time. As I got older my asthmatic symptoms dwindled, and I got sick less and less. Within the last 10 years I've been sick about 5 times, once with pneumonia, and the rest were viral illnesses acquired while working in healthcare. I do receive my tetanus willingly, but I avoid the flu shot like the plague, I always develop pneumonia after the flu shot.

I finally had all of my vaccines last year (except flu), and I haven't had any side effects from any of them except my HPV vaccine which I received at 17. Within weeks of receiving the HPV vaccine, my menstrual cycles became irregular, where I was having them once a year. My cycles are slowly beginning to regulate, but I'm wondering if I'm sterile now. I've been trying for 4 years naturally and nothing.

I believe some vaccines are vital, especially if you're not a hobbit and actually socialize. If you're unvaccinated and healthy, great!

a reply to: Alexithymia

I don't know about anti-vaxers, but from a pro-freedom perspective you are awesome. I don't care if someone gets a vaccine or not...there is plenty of black box, corporate money and politics hiding something, but it is all about freedom to choose.

I don't have a side either except that I want people to be free to make their own choices and live their lives.

a reply to: Alexithymia

Like others said, you are lucky you live in the west where (despite what some may think) herd immunization has protected you.

I am totally pro-vaccination as there's too much evidence to prove how well they work and how successful they are, but I respect people's decisions not to vaccinate if they choose so. This is why I love the UK where vaccines are not compulsory.

Regarding health: I am fully vaccinated, flu shots too due to my job, and I am the picture of health... I can't remember the last time I actually got a cold.

a reply to: paraphi

You don't really have to guess about where I live, it says so right under my image and when I registered. Location: Canada. Yes I benefit from herd immunity, and yes there are places where these diseases are still prevalent. I would most likely still be unvaccinated if I had grown up in one such region, because access to vaccines and other medical treatments people enjoy here are scarce there. So really nothing would change, except my parents probably wouldn't have had the option to give me vaccines. What's more, diseases are not the only nasty things those populations deal with, and I would just as likely die from a natural disaster as a disease. So what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

a reply to: Pardon?

originally posted by: Alexithymia

I don't much care what people think about vaccines either way--that is their business--but I am tired of people involving me in the debate. So I suppose now I am involving myself.

I posted my story to say that there are not only two sides to this, and that it is ignorant to assume someone must take one side or the other. I would hope that people might understand that and stop grouping people such as myself with the rest of the anti-vaxxers. I'm sure a genuine debate where all parties respect and attempt to understand each other is too much to ask of an online forum, but I felt coming under fire here was worth making my voice heard on this subject.

I do not plan on ever getting any vaccines,

You clearly do not care for the well being of others.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Yes clearly that is the only possible assumption to be made based on this one small fact.

a reply to: Metallicus

I want people to be free to make their own choices and live their lives.

I concur however, how far do you take that? I have the freedom of choice to set my house on fire, but this decision puts others at risk of being harmed. Just because I have the choice to do so doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

originally posted by: gwynnhwyfar

originally posted by: superman2012
Personally, I don't care about the uneducated and feel that not getting their vaccines will make the human race stronger. What I don't like is parents forcing their stone age beliefs on their kids. I wonder if you would feel the same way (or even able to put yourself in this situation) if this were to happen to you:
*warning, video is disturbing* Shows Pertussis in a four month old.
Link

PS- you are not a "success story" you are lucky....for now. Imagine getting pertussis at 60...at least you'll have a nice long life?

Good grief, you make it sound like it is the OP's fault she was not vaccinated and you sound very accusatory! The OP was very clear that the decision was made by the parents. I personally vaccinated my kids and hope other parents will vaccinate theirs. My Dad was hospitalized with polio as a child and others in the hospital with him died, but I am not about to accuse the OP of somehow condoning that sad fact by virtue of having never been vaccinated by her parents.

If that's what you got from it then I must have worded it wrong or you didn't care to read and comprehend what I was trying to say.
If the OP is saying that being unvaccinated results in a success story for the anti-vaxxers. I respect her for coming out with her story and I am happy that she hasn't contracted an illness that we were vaccinated for but the "herd immunity" should be there for the people that need it, not the ones that choose to. (yes yes, I get that she didn't choose, but there are people out there willing to put their children at risk because of their beliefs)

a reply to: Alexithymia
I'm happy you are alive, and yes, any disease at any time can kill a person.

As for instilling beliefs in anything for a child, I don't. I protect my children as best as I can, and I allow them to explore the world and find what fits them best. The only thing they got from me was my looks (poor kids ) and my sense of humour. We don't share any thinking on Religion, money, or politics besides me giving them the tools to look it up for themselves and answer any questions I do know.

To your comment about making the human race stronger: I assume what you are implying is that the stupid unvaccinated people will die off, leaving behind more intelligent people. I counter with this: vaccinations allow the weak to appear healthy, so really, vaccines allow weaker genotypes to prevail.

That is exactly what I meant. Vaccinations do not allow the weak to appear strong, they make people stronger, giving them a longer life, in which they can use the extra years to hopefully learn more and make the world a better place....I know, sunshine and rainbows...but it should work that way.