Religious indoctrination of children should be outlawed

The rationale:

• The child's mind is in its formative stage and must be protected from subjective bias - be it political, ideological or whatever - if a stable, balanced and rational adult human can be expected to result.
• The brain's frontal cortex - the logical decision-making department - does not fully develop until ~25 years; rendering decision-making far more susceptible to the influence of emotion (amygdala), until the aforementioned area is full formed
• An ideologically-minded child is an easily manipulatable member of society (see: child soldiers, child martyrs, child sex workers; junk food purveyors targeting of children; grooming of children for war through toys, video games, film etc).
• Religion should only be taught in a communal environment - e.g., secular schools - and in a wholly subjective manner -- "teaching" is not teaching when its underlying agenda is brainwashing.
• It's tantamount to child abuse to deny a child of its right to learn before its neural pathways are forcibly formed and thus impose a bias on any information it can absorb thereafter.
• No victim of [sexual] child abuse (that I know of) has ever strapped C-4 to its chest and blown itself up in a crowded marketplace, yelling the name of his / her perpetrator... yet sex abuse of a child is held by some as the most grave act -- compared to religious indoctrination, which is an accepted, even lauded convention.
• Primordial superstitious offerings to deities using 'child parts' (e.g., circumcision) must be outlawed outright, as they do not only damage the child physically for life, but serve as a brainwashing tool that's forever present on the child's person.
• Religious educational institutions - "recruitment centres" - must either be closed or refashioned solely for adults-only instruction.

Simply put: we must protect OUR children. If a child is expected to participate in society, it must therefore belong to its society. As such, society must take responsibility in protecting its children. Without the 'fountain of youth', they're the future and if we want one [a future], we must pave the way for it.

A parent has no license to damage a child's "god-given"(!) right to an ideological alloy free, unbiased, untainted education of its mind, purely based on the incidental fact that they engaged in the facile, animalist, selfish act of procreation. Doing so is the the most abject form of child exploitation and abuse. Indoctrinating a child in whatever superstitious god-worship, is tantamount to a putting a potential gun in its hand, pointing it at a target of the guardian's choosing and demanding it pull the trigger -- perpetration by parental proxy.

'Give me your child for its first seven years and I'll give you the man', is not a Jesuit axiom because it is predicated upon unfounded propositions.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

All I can say is: I'm glad we have the first amendment in the USA, and I'm glad I wasn't held in kindergarten until I was 25.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

Progressive totalitarian indoctrination should be outlawed. The tyrannical movement to ban, silence, fine, and outlaw everything they don't agree with needs to stop immediately.

Your thread is a perfect example.

Who the hell are you to tell me how to raise my child? I didn't see you around or paying the bills for OUR child.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

Wow, you would make a good (bad) dictator.

I am glad we still have some freedom in the U.S. and that people like you are held in check by our Constitution.

Stalin would approve of this thread.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

Surely you realize just how impossible what you are proposing really is? The state indoctrinates children, the church indoctrinates children, parents indoctrinates children, heck the boy scouts indoctrinate children. What you propose is that children somehow remain formless and void of any outside influence until they emerge from some protective chrysalis. It is an absurd postulate to say the least.

originally posted by: infolurker
Who the hell are you to tell me how to raise my child? I didn't see you around or paying the bills for OUR child.

Your child is not your toy for you to do with (and abuse) as you wish. If you want your child to become a part of the society we afford it, you must create the environment in which it can develop into a compatible candidate for said society.

Otherwise, take yourself and your child to a desert island and create your own society. For we, as a people, do not have an obligation to tolerate your 'broken' progeny just to humour your own sensibilities and the remnant damage caused to you by your own parents.

Am I being unreasonable?

originally posted by: machineintelligence
Surely you realize just how impossible what you are proposing really is? The state indoctrinates children, the church indoctrinates children, parents indoctrinates children, heck the boy scouts indoctrinate children.

At the hight of the Cold War, when Russia were literally colonising and monopolising space, JFK proposed landing on the Moon. This was accomplished in a mere few years... from scratch.

Don't you see? This fine person is on to something!

We can solve all the problems.

Why even have family units anymore?

We just need to have state-run crèche units. Women can report to the crèche if their DNA and medical testing deems them to be suitable for breeding a child or two. They can be matched with male sperm from a DNA/medically determined to be suitable male doner. It's perfect because they don't even to like each other. They don't even ever have to see each other.

She is cared for and coddled until the child is born, and it is taken to the crèche unit. She can go back to her life.

The children are reared identically by specially trained caregivers, and everything will be equal for them. No more inequality in anyting! And the all-perfect, all-benevolent, all-knowing state (All Hail the State, blessings on its name) will determine what shall be taught when, and testing will determine each child's eventual perfect place in society!

What wonderful vision.

No Child Left Behind Indeed!

/sarc

originally posted by: buster2010
Stalin would approve of this thread.

I think we just agreed on something. Leave it to a wannabe dictator to bring people together.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Why even have family units anymore?

The existence of your "family unit" relies on the abuse of its most vulnerable constituents...?

originally posted by: TheInhumanCentipede

originally posted by: ketsuko
Why even have family units anymore?

The existence of your "family unit" relies on the abuse of its most vulnerable constituents...?

I teach my child values and right and wrong.

What about you?

a reply to: ketsuko

There is a sizable amount of research saying that war damages DNA of future offspring along with any other major traumas so how many of us perpetuating this system are damaged goods.

a reply to: stabstab

It's somewhat of a cop out to try to blame your DNA for your actions on everything.

Sometimes, you have to take responsibility for yourself.

Addiction doesn't make you take that first hit or drink. You made that choice.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

JFK proposed landing on the Moon. This was accomplished in a mere few years... from scratch.

Imagine that, and JFK was indoctrinated into a Catholic upbringing by the Church and his Catholic parents.

The REBUTTAL (Using the author's words against them):

- The child must be PROTECTED FROM the logic of ABSOLUTES and taught to recognize right from wrong - be it political, ideological or whatever (or bull# posted to an ATS board) - if a stable, balanced and LOVING adult human is expected to result.
- Since the brain's frontal cortex does not fully developed until the mid to late twenties, responsible adults should model proper behavior for the child so that the concepts of Alfred Bandura's Social Learning Theory can be applied later in life when these pathways become available.
- A child taught through example by parents (whose frontal cortex is properly formed), will have a clear understanding of right from wrong, independent of religious ideals. This will make the individual more difficult to manipulate.
- Religion should NEVER be officially sanctioned by government. This opens the door for other religions to be persecuted, thus leading to the exact type of single minded bull# we are discussing here. #eyeroll
- Before a child's neural pathways are FULLY formed, a loving adult can teach the child to CONTROL and UNDERSTAND their emotions. This enables the individual to understand the proper roles of love, sex, and anger. Teachings are lovingly taught not imposed.
- Attempting to draw any conclusion based on comparing a terrorist to a victim of sexual abuse is ignorant. #facepalm
- I am uncertain as to the psychological effects of circumcision, as it usually happens in infancy and no lingering memories of it exist, thus rendering the hypothesis of psychological damage questionable at best.
- Religious educational institutions can be important tools when secular ones become ineffective due to political red tape or interference from other political and religious zealots. Public schools outright suck in some parts of the world, and the only other place to turn are religious schools. Yet another example of a restriction on religious freedom that ends up right back at religious persecution of minority groups. Yay.

Religious freedom exists in the western world for a reason. Freedom for one is freedom for all. If the government has freedom to restrict one religion, they can restrict ANY religion or even ALL religion. Freedom of speech and religion is a basic human right. Separation of church and state is important, and lack of it leads to bloodshed. This is why in America we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It (usually) protects us from Nazi zealots like you.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

Yes, you are unreasonable because Ill raise my child how I wanna raise my child and you or anyone else can F off if you tell me otherwise.

what is the police gonna go house to house imposing moral child care

hopefully its robot police makes it more 1984

originally posted by: TheInhumanCentipede

originally posted by: infolurker
Who the hell are you to tell me how to raise my child? I didn't see you around or paying the bills for OUR child.

Your child is not your toy for you to do with (and abuse) as you wish. If you want your child to become a part of the society we afford it, you must create the environment in which it can develop into a compatible candidate for said society.

Otherwise, take yourself and your child to a desert island and create your own society. For we, as a people, do not have an obligation to tolerate your 'broken' progeny just to humour your own sensibilities and the remnant damage caused to you by your own parents.

Am I being unreasonable?

originally posted by: machineintelligence
Surely you realize just how impossible what you are proposing really is? The state indoctrinates children, the church indoctrinates children, parents indoctrinates children, heck the boy scouts indoctrinate children.

At the hight of the Cold War, when Russia were literally colonising and monopolising space, JFK proposed landing on the Moon. This was accomplished in a mere few years... from scratch.

It developed into a Nursing school graduate and currently works in a cardiac unit in a hospital. How about your child Oh enlightened one or do you even have any and have the first clue on what you are talking about?

Oh, by the way, a majority of people in this society do not support this idiocy.... So, that island you were talking about.... start sailing!

And take those portraits of Mao and Stalin with you!

originally posted by: TheInhumanCentipede

Your child is not your toy for you to do with (and abuse) as you wish. If you want your child to become a part of the society we afford it, you must create the environment in which it can develop into a compatible candidate for said society.

And who is the arbiter of truth for this fictitious society you would like to create? Who decides what the morals are? What is important or not? All you are doing is trading in 1 system you feel is oppressive for a 2nd system of control and indoctrination that you somehow are OK with despite not describing just how your new fangled utopian system. The failure to see your own hypocrisy is painful to see. Just to be clear, I'm the farthest thing a person could be from a religious or conservative person as can be attested to by many on that side of the coin, but what you are in favor of is against everything the U.S. constitution stands for. I didn't serve in the Army with the intention of upholding EVERY Americans constitutional rights just so I could be a flaming hypocrite and decide to silence viewpoints I may not be 100% in agreement with. The First Amendment is one of the most important pieces of legislation ever authored in the history of civilization and that means that even as an agnostic, I will support the rights of Eeicans to(within a degree of reason) be allowed to raise their children under the morals and values that are important t those parents. If it means they raise their children to be racists then so be it. Those children wil have the opportunity to grow and learn from their peers more than their parents as they hit High School and beyond. Life experiences way just as heavily as the social circle you were born into. Depriving people of their rights because their values are different from yours is vile and perhaps even bigoted. You should be ashamed.

Otherwise, take yourself and your child to a desert island and create your own society. For we, as a people, do not have an obligation to tolerate your 'broken' progeny just to humour your own sensibilities and the remnant damage caused to you by your own parents.

Our society is In no way some Homogenous entity spanning across the vast majority of the 330 million people living here.
Just like accents and varieties of food and even how things are referred to ( pop in the South and Soda in the North for example, red chowder in NYC, white chowder in Boston and Gumbo in the bayou ) societal expectations and allowances vary from one region to the next. What YOU deem palatable and acceptable in your area is going to get ou strung up 600 miles away from where you are.

Am I being unreasonable?

absolutely

At the hight of the Cold War, when Russia were literally colonising and monopolising space, JFK proposed landing on the Moon. This was accomplished in a mere few years... from scratch.

Destroying the constitution is in no way a viable comparison to technological achievements. Two completely different things. One affected the private sectorand advanced science while the other affects every single living breathing person in America. If you can't see the difference there then there's no coming back from the horrid state of education in America.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I teach my child values and right and wrong.
What about you?

So, you're the 'word' on what's right and wrong, Obi-Wan? ...Or do you delegate that responsibility "God", mister prophet?

originally posted by: stabstab
There is a sizable amount of research saying that war damages DNA of future offspring along with any other major traumas so how many of us perpetuating this system are damaged goods.

Indeed. The science (not superstition!) of epigentics is teaching us that all experiences of parents, especially of the traumatic kind, influence the development of the foetus; even effecting male reproductive DNA. Drunks end up with progeny more predisposed to addiction and depression. The abused, with those given to violence...

Of course, the godtard pays no attention to the science that fashions the world which they reside in and the technologies they hypocritically avail to proselytise their pernicious propaganda... only when it suits them.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
Imagine that, and JFK was indoctrinated into a Catholic upbringing by the Church and his Catholic parents.

Boldfaced and underline for emphasis; and imagine he didn't have the burden of religious superstition to deal with on top of everything else he was beset with? (...and some comparatively indoctrinated ideological loon/s did not assassinate him!)

originally posted by: infolurker
And take those portraits of Mao and Stalin with you!

And you wonder why the world dubs you "idiot America"...

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

They still kill without religious indoctrination.

Short list of intentional child killers 13 and under. There are more, too depressing to read and link to. Do your own search. They are there.

m.nydailynews.com...

www.dailymail.co.uk...


latino.foxnews.com...

Link to familicides:

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Link to rampage killers:

en.m.wikipedia.org...

---------------------------

You say in part, "...purely based on the incidental fact that they engaged in the facile, animalist, selfish act of procreation." Which is disturbing. Having a child is unselfish and being brain washed to not have a child for dozens of selfish, self-serving reasons is prevailant through society. With the birthrate being so low, we will soon have a population of genetically altered humans only the extremely wealthy can afford. Along with androids and cyborgs. This is the way that is being paved. Technology is a religion. More dangerous than any organized Religion ever was or will be. The indoctrination of children to technology is horrific. Technology is the new god but no one will admit it. Toddlers as young as 2 can navigate smartphones. Disturbing. Toddlers as young as 2 play black ops war shoot to kill video games. Saw one with my own eyes. No lie. Sitting in diapers. No religious indoctrination there just technology and war indoctrination.

I am seeing a trend of more and more people expressing disgust for procreation and humans which is a dangerous ideology.

From Google:

i·de·ol·o·gy

1. A system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
"the ideology of republicanism"
synonyms: beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles.

I hear what you are saying. You put a lot of thought snd care into your post. Your concern is expressed passionately. But you have to begin to see the bigger picture. Its not religious indoctrination during childhood that is the enemy. Its media and technology saturation that will move to play god soon or usher in ET disclosure.

There is so much to think about here.