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Question for Islamic ATS Members

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posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: AlphaPred
Did any of these working poor have mobile phones?
Coz if they did by your logic........
Big screen tv's?
Smoke?
Drink?
Now I'm one of those that detests the divisions forced upon us by the press, media and the powerful
Even these bloody reality shows where they ask those same few questions
"If they're so poor how come they all smoke drink and f'ing big tv's"
So really you must see the hypocrisy in some of your statements and sentiments
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Are you referring to the working poor that are citizens of the host countries? Because how they spend their money would indeed be on them.

But we are not discussing the working poor here. We are talking about massive groups of people that are coming into countries already dealing with limited resources and challenges for their working poor. To expect the working poor of the host countries to sacrifice even more, to the benefit of the incomers while doing without themselves, is not conducive for an amiable relationship for any of those involved.

If your complaint is that the working poor shouldn't indulge in vices that reduce their wealth, then are you suggesting that forcing them to give up their homes, jobs, or discretionary income is the solution?

I don't believe that is what you are saying, but that is what I am hearing, so I understand how you may have read my post and came away with "your" interpretation of what I was saying. It is easy to do. Communication is difficult enough; just words on a screen can be severely misconstrued.




posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: antar
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The Obama phone?

It is not free. It is not even cheap. Few if any working people will qualify, and the service has been around long before President Obama was old enough to tie his shoes.

The Obama Phone?



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:38 AM
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originally posted by: antar
Looks as if my Thread (OP) title was misleading, well perhaps not misleading but more like incomplete. I have many questions, I want to be unchanged by what is happening worldwide, to not have strong negative feelings against others because of what I hear and see and read. They say money, power, politics can change a person. They also say religion changes a person. So why when people change it is rarely for the betterment of themselves and others?

I am not against change, far from it, but change that brings us up, that raises all of our collective consciousness. I believe this planet and all life are precious, that we are at a precipice of change one way or another. Sometimes I wonder if there is anything to alternate realities, what has become of the other dimensions coexisting side by side with ours? Is our plane of existence, our dimensional level so low that the best we can do is to destroy humanity and hope for a better future in a few millions years?


Your question is an interesting one and history teaches you that changes that are for the betterment of the individual or others are often destroyed...
1. Jesus - killed by the powerful Jews and Romans because of his message
2. Abraham Lincoln - killed for changing the country for the better (not perfect)
3. Gandhi - killed for his message (not that he was perfect either)
4. JFK - killed for wanting/trying to change things (not perfect)
5. RFK - killed for trying to uncover the truth (not perfect)
6. MLK - killed for changing things (not perfect)
7. Malcolm X - killed for changing things
8. John Trudell - family killed for talking. An FBI note claimed "He is extremely eloquent therefore extremely dangerous."

The people that try to change things for the better are shut down by those in power. Those in power are perhaps the most heinous people on the planet regardless of the PR spin and photo ops. They will seek all knowledge about every individual so no matter how good your message is they can try to destroy you (NSA spying) like they try to do with discussing the affairs of JFK and MLK. They need those heroes to be less likable.

I could go on about this, but I won't.

Historically, Islam has fought among themselves and never sought radicalization. Outward radicalization (aggression towards non-Muslims) has been spurred on by Western money and influence as well as continued bombing and destruction of their countries, towns/villages. With every death of a family member the hate grows, as it should and would for any human being. Look at Israel and Palestine. Palestinians are called "terrorists" and the majority of pictures of those "terrorists" are throwing rocks, while Israel bombs the s#!t out of them... and we are just now beginning to see the truth.

You can see examples of Muslims and non-Muslims living peacefully in Middle Eastern countries like Afghanistan in the 1960s, prior to Western involvement.

People see what they want to see and the majority of people are blind or purposefully avoid the facts. We can't change until we accept factual reality, not the warped reality each person creates in their heads.
edit on 11-11-2015 by WCmutant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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I haven't got a clue. I googled "letter from Czech doctor in Germany refugees" and it came up with the website. Try it if you wish. Are you presuming I am a Christian?a reply to: rajas


edit on 11-11-2015 by anxiouswens because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: anxiouswens




Are you presuming I am a Christian?


From my point of view, i couldnt care less, radicals doesnt have a side.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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if I am a radical then I would much rather have my kind of radical which is to not hurt or harm anyone and for everyone to just live peacefully together. Life is difficult enough without all the wars. If I was to really start going down that line it would lead to a completely different thread. Most wars are man made. I'm not saying women are never involved but in the main it is men who create wars. I'm female, so like most females, I am someone who would rather nurture and live in peace with everyone else around me, unfortunately in today's climate that is becoming harder and harder to do.a reply to: rajas



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: AlphaPred

Your post is a bit off topic, however it also makes some solid points as well.

There are so many threads on ATS basing the US and it's allies for the reasons behind this mass exodus for whatever reason. You might enjoy posting in those?

I have to ask you if you personally know of anyone in this exodus from economic/wartorn nations? Do they text, email or send you videos of what is really going on? THAT is the real reason behind this thread.

So many misunderstandings, no real news and then you have bias and onesided opinion not factual accounts of why they fled, what they hope to change by fleeing, and what the real story is behind the escape and journey, then what they observe of WHO is getting into other countries and who is not .



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: antar

originally posted by: asen_y2k
I am neither a muslim, nor a refugee, but I do know a few refugees currently in Germany. The ones I know are doctors. One of them had family members killed by ISIS. Normal guys these refugees, worried about getting their working permits at the moment, studying the language and preparing to pass the German medical equivalency exam. Bottom line, these guys are like any other bloke, they just dont drink beer and that the only difference between me and them..


THANKYOU for your post. You are exactly the member or among our respected members that I am asking this of. So many threads devoted to the emotional/political side of this, I have even joined in, BUT, the questions are honest and important questions for an open minded person as myself and most assuredly other members.

Too many media gag orders to know truth from fiction. In any exodus such as this there will be every type of human being. Just wanting to know for sure rather than make blind assumptions against all because of a few. This thread is not about cell phones, but rather what the refugee's are posting that are in camps and on the run.


Well I can chime in with more details. This one guy whos brother was beheaded by ISIS now has a pet cat, studying hard to pass the German medical exam.

Another refugee who worked at a medical camp in Syria before it was destroyed and he fled for his life is now in Germany. Last facebook update I saw from him was that he was at a local library. Eventhough that fellow is a muslim, he loves partying. Before the Syrian war when we were in college together in Ukraine, I attended quite a few drunken parties with him. Not at all like a typical muslim we would expect. Actually I was quite surprised to see that he was in a library and not partying tbh.

I knew a lot of Syrians while in college in Ukraine. They were quite liberal. Their girls dressed in miniskirts and visited clubs at night. Got drunk with quite a few of them lol. The idea of Syrians on ATS is completely the opposite of my experience.
edit on 11/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: anxiouswens




if I am a radical then I would much rather have my kind of radical which is to not hurt or harm anyone and for everyone to just live peacefully together.

You start off with this, and end with an argument


unfortunately in today's climate that is becoming harder and harder to do


Your whole post, was to say? You want peace? Everybody seeks peace, the main aspect of war is a peaceful solution as the end meaning. You dont fight, if you dont have a cause. Or you think people do things just cause?

Psychopaths and lonewolfs are not a whole group they are individuals



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: anxiouswens
I'm genuinely interested then to know if you think this letter is legitimate statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk... I've never posted this, or quite a lot of other stuff I have seen, because contrary to common belief although I post stuff from Daily Mail and Daily Express in most cases I do carry out research before posting to make sure it is real news. I've not posted this letter because I'm not sure if it is genuine or not as we don't know who the author is. Do you agree with anything that is said in the letter or is everything in it pure lies? I'm just interested to know because this has been on so many different forums.a reply to: asen_y2k

I can't vouch for the authenticity of this particular letter. What I can do is tell you is, that I have watched once considered normal behaviors of civility and respect dwindle from the lives of all the peoples around the world. I worked in a busy and crazy, hectic ER/shock trauma unit around 40 years ago, and while it was often chaotic, people showed respect to each other and the staff.

Go to a local hospital ER on a Friday or Saturday night and just lurk a while, if you are allowed. I don't advise ever lurking around any inner city hospital at any time. One of the hospitals were I worked for a short while, placed bullet proof shielding in some of the areas and tightened the hospital pharmacy down like it was Fort Knox.

I would not be surprised in the least if this is true. I have witnessed extremely poor and dangerous behavior from way too many people while working in hospital. Sometimes the patients can be as deadly as their visitors. I think they get their drama training from the movies and TV.

Now that I have been educated and informed that the asylum seekers are being provided free cell phones, free service, free Wi-Fi, free data plans, and free solar chargers, and I live in America, I can't get a cell signal, I pay through the nose for an unreliable Wi-Fi connection, and have a cap on my data usage; but I digress.
Now that I know these asylum seekers are all plugged in, it might explain a lot of the behavior we are seeing. I guess even asylum seekers want their YouTube moment, and their 15 minutes of fame. Everybody wants to be tougher and more bad ass then the other guy and we do live in a “pic or it didn’t happen world”.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: anxiouswens




if I am a radical then I would much rather have my kind of radical which is to not hurt or harm anyone and for everyone to just live peacefully together.



unfortunately in today's climate that is becoming harder and harder to do



Psychopaths and lonewolfs are not a whole group they are individuals


Exactly. That has been my experience. I practically lived amonst Arabs mostly Syrians for 6 years. Most of them are like you and me. Bothered about trivial everyday life. A small percentage amongst them are ultra religious/nationalistic. That small percentage is the same as the small fraction of ultranationalists everywhere in the world in every country.

Remember the bigots are usually the loudest(we see this on ATS too). Thus we get to hear about them more on the news.
edit on 11/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: anxiouswens
I'm genuinely interested then to know if you think this letter is legitimate statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk... I've never posted this, or quite a lot of other stuff I have seen, because contrary to common belief although I post stuff from Daily Mail and Daily Express in most cases I do carry out research before posting to make sure it is real news. I've not posted this letter because I'm not sure if it is genuine or not as we don't know who the author is. Do you agree with anything that is said in the letter or is everything in it pure lies? I'm just interested to know because this has been on so many different forums.a reply to: asen_y2k


Now that I have been educated and informed that the asylum seekers are being provided free cell phones, free service, free Wi-Fi, free data plans, and free solar chargers, and I live in America, I can't get a cell signal, I pay through the nose for an unreliable Wi-Fi connection, and have a cap on my data usage; but I digress.
Now that I know these asylum seekers are all plugged in, it might explain a lot of the behavior we are seeing. I guess even asylum seekers want their YouTube moment, and their 15 minutes of fame. Everybody wants to be tougher and more bad ass then the other guy and we do live in a “pic or it didn’t happen world”.


Not a reply to you but in general:

We should keep in mind that these refugees could have been quite rich folks before the war. They are not poor masses but normal everyday people fleeing the slaughter of a brutal war. Thus we see refugees who at times complain of 'bad' provisions at the camps.
edit on 11/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: rajas

Oh my I have to say that the quotes are probably the true sentiment of most rational intelligent peoples. I will refrain from further comments at this time, in this thread.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

Ok so where are the direct communications from the refugee's that state conditions are bad at the camps?

This is important, to supply links to comments like that in this thread.

We have all read, seen on youtube and other media outlets where this is the situation, however in this thread I beseech the first hand communications from people close, family, friends, so that at least in this thread we can begin to understand and define the real from the fake or bias.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

In the Sufi story I told on page 1, this is the situation imho, that the larger fraction of refugees, if they are fleeing to escape the totalitarian regimes, the difficult judgement and punishments of the few seem to taint them on this journey. *If they end up in camps that are controlled by the very same types they hope to escape, then they are put into a position of compromising their dreams by standing by and even if not partaking in the rowdiness, are blamed just as equally.

When they are forced to live among the very same they hope to escape, they are marginalized by the host cities and the free countries at large as well as the communities they thought they would incorporate into for their futures and those of their religious freedoms, education and employment.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

Not a reply to you but in general: We should keep in mind that these refugees could have been quite rich folks before the war. They are not poor masses but normal everyday people fleeing the slaughter of a brutal war. Thus we see refugees who at times complain of 'bad' provisions at the camps.

If those quite rich folk are among those involved in the massive influx, then they are either bankrolling the masses or exploiting them and us.

Quite rich people don't keep the bulk of their money where they can't reach it, and where they can't profit from it.

But I am done with this thread. I just hope that those that are attempting to divert attention from the legitimate concerns of those that are having to personally deal with the turmoil in their communities, will spare a little of that love, compassion and commonsense, and throw some in the direction of the citizens that are having their world upside down.

You never know. Those people that you belittle and so harshly dismiss today, may be the only ones that can come to your aide in the future. There is no one that can show you a better path through hell than he that has traveled it, or he that has built it.

The person in the woods that recognizes the footprints of what surrounds him, has a better chance for survival then the one that walks the path with no concern or recognition that he is in the woods.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

Can only star you once. I appreciate your honesty and candor in what you can share. Can you relate to what I am saying here in that the media allows only so much truth and that it is mostly false (by omission) and a skewed to the agenda it is pushing whether for or against this exodus.

FB shutting down accounts to keep people from connecting with human traffickers can only be part of the reason, I wonder if it is to keep the world at large from knowing the plight of the refugees who are on level and not raging the systems wherever they go.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: antar
a reply to: asen_y2k

Ok so where are the direct communications from the refugee's that state conditions are bad at the camps?



Nope, the few refugees I know did not complain at all and were all praises for Germany. The part about complaining is from news clips where the refugees say the WiFi is slow.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: asen_y2k

Not a reply to you but in general: We should keep in mind that these refugees could have been quite rich folks before the war. They are not poor masses but normal everyday people fleeing the slaughter of a brutal war. Thus we see refugees who at times complain of 'bad' provisions at the camps.

If those quite rich folk are among those involved in the massive influx, then they are either bankrolling the masses or exploiting them and us.




In a terrible situation if I had money, I would first of all pay the people smuglers to get myself out of the warzone. Its my thinking that the rich ones are the first to get out.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: antar
a reply to: asen_y2k

Can only star you once. I appreciate your honesty and candor in what you can share. Can you relate to what I am saying here in that the media allows only so much truth and that it is mostly false (by omission) and a skewed to the agenda it is pushing whether for or against this


Actually the media depends on the shock value of news to get viewers. It wont say for example, oh today 500 refugees successfully integrated and have a job and pay taxes now. No it will go for the "refugee goes mental and wants to behead the red cross member for bad food". More viewers, more money. Simple. At the end it only radicalised the population, pushes them to the far right and creates false fear in their hearts.
edit on 11/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



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