IRS head to be impeached?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Of course!

Then again, the standard mantra of the left is use precedence as the justification for their own 'crimes and misdemeanors'.

Perhaps members on both sides take pause if this one gains traction.....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Gryphon66

Of course!

Then again, the standard mantra of the left is use precedence as the justification for their own 'crimes and misdemeanors'.

Perhaps members on both sides take pause if this one gains traction.....

I'm a bit more left than center on many issues, not so much on others, and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with your stated "mantra" ... I don't think I've ever said that or made that argument even one time, so based on a survey size of one (as I assume your statement is) I believe you're mistaken.

What exactly would the current head of the IRS be impeached for? What "high crimes and misdemeanors" exactly? The sources are unclear on that point.

Skip that last ... I'm sure you'll just quote the ridiculous trumped up charges. I guess the Republican Congress, having so much stinking egg on their faces regarding their manipulations of the Benghazi hearings, are desperately trying to find a safer bet to keep their base in "bread and circuses."

I guess we'll see how the 10 or 20 investigations of the IRS go ... /sigh

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Gryphon66

Of course!

Then again, the standard mantra of the left is use precedence as the justification for their own 'crimes and misdemeanors'.

Perhaps members on both sides take pause if this one gains traction.....

I'm a bit more left than center on many issues, not so much on others, and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with your stated "mantra" ... I don't think I've ever said that or made that argument even one time, so based on a survey size of one (as I assume your statement is) I believe you're mistaken.

What exactly would the current head of the IRS be impeached for? What "high crimes and misdemeanors" exactly? The sources are unclear on that point.

I didn't say you, I said the mantra of the LEFT.

As far as the particulars of the impeachment, I posted the link a few minutes ago earlier in the thread. Check it out and let me know what you think....

a reply to: nwtrucker

But I don't think you would argue that I am a member of the LEFT that you're talking about, no?

Wouldn't I be aware of our "mantra" ... don't you think? As a member of "the Left" I'm saying that your comment about a mantra makes no sense and has no basis in fact.

I think if they can prove that tapes were destroyed as anything other than the normal operating procedures of the given offices, or, if they can nail down some specific statements or statements made by Koskinen under oath that they can prove fraudulent ... they may have a case. I think they're running a bigger chance of being seen as using the power of government to punish political enemies at this current moment though, which, while of no moment to the Republican faithful, may lose them even more Independents in the coming elections, as that is the erstwhile complaint that serves as the basis for the whole IRS nonsense in the first place.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: nwtrucker

But I don't think you would argue that I am a member of the LEFT that you're talking about, no?

Wouldn't I be aware of our "mantra" ... don't you think? As a member of "the Left" I'm saying that your comment about a mantra makes no sense and has no basis in fact.

I think if they can prove that tapes were destroyed as anything other than the normal operating procedures of the given offices, or, if they can nail down some specific statements or statements made by Koskinen under oath that they can prove fraudulent ... they may have a case. I think they're running a bigger chance of being seen as using the power of government to punish political enemies at this current moment though, which, while of no moment to the Republican faithful, may lose them even more Independents in the coming elections, as that is the erstwhile complaint that serves as the basis for the whole IRS nonsense in the first place.

I won't bother with rebutting your 'no basis in fact'. ATS is full of that logic basis by members of the left. That group you are/aren't a member of depending on which post one reads....

I and obviously more than a few others, would view your political fears/argument that it is a politically dangerous play as not a consideration. It has been proven beyond any doubt that the IRS and members thereof targeted right wing groups in awarding tax exempt status.

This impeachment is basically for covering up the act/policy of doing so.

If it shows the general public at least the attempt of self-correction and ethics enforcement and if it costs some votes? So be it.

Better than the nod, nod, wink, wink we've suffered through for too long.

a reply to: nwtrucker

If you mean the logic of looking for evidence of wrongdoing rather than believing what the right-wing media blathers out, sure, I understand why you wouldn't rebut ... because you can't. You have no other evidence for guilt. Oh give it a rest on talking about me ... if your post weren't mere political theater you'd have something more factual to say.

You will notice that I stated that the Republican faithful wouldn't care about the blatant and on-going misuse of Congressional power, right? I'm not surprised that you and the other 23% of the population that are Republicans don't care about wrong doing on the part of YOUR government, just the President and the Democrats.

Guilty until proven innocent, right? I would say that's the "mantra" of the right-wing ... but you've already clearly demonstrated how silly that is.

Got facts?

a reply to: Gryphon66



I won't be sucked into your usual misdirect of a thread.

I know well how you operate....

The impeachment process is occurring. Fact.

There is evidence otherwise it wouldn't be occurring. Probably fact.

As far as IRS being partisan, plenty of threads covering the issue. Try visiting them.

As far as a cover-up and lying under oath? Those are charges. Innocent until proven guilty.

From what I've seen, there are grounds for the charges.

We shall see...

a reply to: nwtrucker

Misdirect? Are you saying your thread ISN'T about the Impeachment of Mr. Koskinen or the surrounding facts (or in this case, the lack thereof)? Because that's all I'm talking about, as well as the ludicrous overreach of the Republican Congress, investigating anything and everything for political points and scoring none, time after time.

How is the nature of the investigation, or those doing the investigating, or any facts that we actually DO KNOW rather than garbage that some folks just believe ... somehow a "misdirect"?

Sorry to spoil your belief-based IRS/Obama Administration/Clinton bash-fest with references to facts or the lack thereof in a matter that has been basically settled for well over a year: No Criminal Charges Expected in FBI IRS Investigation - Forbes Magazine

/shrug

The reality is that so much of what happened was bad, inappropriate, ill-willed, lazy – all of those words that have been tossed about. But we don’t put people in jail for merely using bad judgment or acting inappropriately. If we did, we’d probably see many of the folks at the Golden Globes and the entire cast of MTV’s “Jersey Shore” in the clink, full time.

Bad behavior isn’t the same as criminal behavior. And you don’t throw someone in jail to make you feel better because you’re mad. And yes, we’re all mad. And yes, criminal behavior should never be tolerated and it should be punished. And at the agency level, even behavior that rises to the level of just bad shouldn’t be tolerated and it should be punished. But the punishments for both are not and should not be the same.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: nwtrucker

Misdirect? Are you saying your thread ISN'T about the Impeachment of Mr. Koskinen or the surrounding facts (or in this case, the lack thereof)? Because that's all I'm talking about, as well as the ludicrous overreach of the Republican Congress, investigating anything and everything for political points and scoring none, time after time.

How is the nature of the investigation, or those doing the investigating, or any facts that we actually DO KNOW rather than garbage that some folks just believe ... somehow a "misdirect"?

Sorry to spoil your belief-based IRS/Obama Administration/Clinton bash-fest with references to facts or the lack thereof in a matter that has been basically settled for well over a year: No Criminal Charges Expected in FBI IRS Investigation - Forbes Magazine

/shrug

The reality is that so much of what happened was bad, inappropriate, ill-willed, lazy – all of those words that have been tossed about. But we don’t put people in jail for merely using bad judgment or acting inappropriately. If we did, we’d probably see many of the folks at the Golden Globes and the entire cast of MTV’s “Jersey Shore” in the clink, full time.

Bad behavior isn’t the same as criminal behavior. And you don’t throw someone in jail to make you feel better because you’re mad. And yes, we’re all mad. And yes, criminal behavior should never be tolerated and it should be punished. And at the agency level, even behavior that rises to the level of just bad shouldn’t be tolerated and it should be punished. But the punishments for both are not and should not be the same.

Gee, I will rebut,

CONGRESS IS ENACTING IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THE HEAD OF THE IRS.

Hint number one: Capitalizing doesn't make one point more important than another. In this case, both are facts.

Hint number two: 'Betraying the public trust' doesn't come under the purview of the FBI, does it???

Hint number three: 'No charges' against the IRS isn't the same as impeachment The HEAD of the IRS.

I will let Congress prove or disprove the case....

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: nwtrucker

Misdirect? Are you saying your thread ISN'T about the Impeachment of Mr. Koskinen or the surrounding facts (or in this case, the lack thereof)? Because that's all I'm talking about, as well as the ludicrous overreach of the Republican Congress, investigating anything and everything for political points and scoring none, time after time.

How is the nature of the investigation, or those doing the investigating, or any facts that we actually DO KNOW rather than garbage that some folks just believe ... somehow a "misdirect"?

Sorry to spoil your belief-based IRS/Obama Administration/Clinton bash-fest with references to facts or the lack thereof in a matter that has been basically settled for well over a year: No Criminal Charges Expected in FBI IRS Investigation - Forbes Magazine

/shrug

The reality is that so much of what happened was bad, inappropriate, ill-willed, lazy – all of those words that have been tossed about. But we don’t put people in jail for merely using bad judgment or acting inappropriately. If we did, we’d probably see many of the folks at the Golden Globes and the entire cast of MTV’s “Jersey Shore” in the clink, full time.

Bad behavior isn’t the same as criminal behavior. And you don’t throw someone in jail to make you feel better because you’re mad. And yes, we’re all mad. And yes, criminal behavior should never be tolerated and it should be punished. And at the agency level, even behavior that rises to the level of just bad shouldn’t be tolerated and it should be punished. But the punishments for both are not and should not be the same.

Actually, the above I tend to agree with. If he, in fact. lied under oath, tried to cover it up, that a different story. That's what the particulars state. Lying under oath is criminal behavior oh, and spare me your 'everyone does it', rebuttal.

That is an offense that merits jail time.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Where did I say "everyone does it"? Should I just let you post both sides of the discussion?

Would that be easier for you to make your points?

I'm still looking for facts. You don't seem to have any beyond the obvious that there is an impeachment hearing set, and that you believe the Republicans ... even though there have been several investigations (pursued by said Republicans) that ended with no findings of any criminal acts.

Rep. Chaffez didn't get his way (as he didn't get into the Secret Service apparently) when he demanded that the President fire Mr. so he's going to waste even more of the People's money on a petulant partisan investigation/impeachment of Mr. Koskinen.

The Republicans tried to cite AG Holder and Lois Lerner with contempt over this silliness and that didn't stick.

Here, I'll let someone that has first hand knowledge speak on this issue:

“Calling this resolution a ‘stunt’ or a ‘joke’ would be insulting to stunts and jokes,” Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (Md.) the committee’s top Democrat, said in a statement. He said the impeachment resolution was “ridiculous” and a waste of taxpayer money.

“Instead of squandering millions of taxpayer dollars on baseless partisan attacks,” Cumming said, “the committee should focus on issues that matter to all Americans, like bringing down the costs of prescription drugs, as I have requested for the past year with no success.”

Cummings added that there is no evidence Koskinen did what Chaffetz is accusing him of and said[b] IRS has spent $20 million and 160,000 employee hours cooperating with investigations.

House Republicans, in last-ditch effort, move to impeach IRS commissioner over targeting scandal - The Washington Post

What do you think the final cost to the American taxpayer over these political sour grapes will be?

a reply to: Gryphon66

We shall see....

Sour grapes....or the continuous deflection of an Administration that has gone stark, raving mad in it's abuse of executive powers.

Arrogant beyond comprehension, whose paying the price in seats at all level of gov't nation-wide and about to pay the same on a Presidential level.

No. Of course not. The ravings of a lunatic 'extreme', fringe right.

We shall see....

a reply to: nwtrucker

IRS head to be impeached?

To the guillotine would be much better!