Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

LOOK!
I already appologized many threads back about RAP...I know it's a horrible corruption, I was a headbanger, I too was corrupted in our own way but AT LEAST ours had class.
The "Axe you a question" thing drives ME nuts.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, what I'm saying is people don't realize that language is constantly evolving and what worked for people 300 years ago might not be necessary anymore. Maybe we shouldn't be wasting time arguing over "to too and two" because seriously... who cares? Perhaps learning the English language is a pretty stupid thing to do, given that there are far more concise and less confusing languages, like sanskrit. Is everyone here just intolerant? Just because they don't speak like you doesn't mean you need to figure out how to "fix that". I've never met a person I couldn't talk to, can't see how this could possibly contribute to unemployment.

I get where you are coming from, street slang can be a more succinct way to communicate, and English is cumbersome (and I would add versatile). Also many of these dialects and in some cases recently-evolved languages are inherent to specific minority or sub-cultures with their own values, customs and priorities that are often different from the dominant culture. Which is why everyone is so ornery about this. You have people bringing in their own language and hindering communication in a sphere that is largely determined and regulated by the dominant culture.

When that sphere of influence has to do with livelihood people want very much to be able to communicate clearly, which means that there should and needs to be a common language to facilitate that. While I think that these other dialects, languages and cultures contribute to a dominant culture, and as you said, languages evolve, which is part of what we are seeing, there should also be concessions made to the dominant culture that encompasses these others in order to facilitate cohesion.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: crazyewok

Ok this is a bit more advanced than either of you can handle. I would explain further but it'd be like opening a can of worms, and quite frankly I don't have the patients to explain to you this natural phenomena that occurs timelessly and globally. I can't help you, I'm sorry.

It's patience, not patients. See, you're trying to describe the length of your tolerance....but you end up talking about sick people. English!

It should also be "contributing" not "contributeing", but you see that mistake is ok because you happen to agree with the perspective of the one who made it. But... English!

a reply to: crazyewok

The irony of all this is during such intelligent conversations with individuals who speak this language I am asked if I "know what they are saying?" at least 50 times before the first sentence gets out.

It may be a little bit different of a language over there but the basis is the same, kids growing up thinking they are some ghetto superstar rapper and them getting lost in their delusions of grandeur. I have a bit of fun with it sometimes, being in the South Eastern part of the USA I can pull of the indecipherable "backwoods redneck" voice and throw it right back at them. Some could consider it an impersonation from an old somewhat adult cartoon King of the Hill, The look on their faces are priceless.

The phenomenon in question in this topic is not exclusive to the UK or the english language.

Brazilians, in general, don't make good use of their language. Actually they forgot how to speak or write portuguese all together. Sometimes I translate a word eng>port and I get an empty gaze like: "what does this (brazilian) word mean?"
WTF they are supposed to know such word.

Now, as you may or may not know, Brazil is a quite violent country. Violence rules in many different ways here: crime rates, violent traffic, verbal violence, phisycal aggression, prejudice. Name it. We have more people murdered per year than in any war you heard of.

Why am I saying this thing about violence in a topic about employment and ability to speak?

Because the inability to speak correctly is not only contributing to unemployment, but is definitely leading to violence. How so?

Let me quote a sentence: "when men run out of words they reach for their swords".
This statement is clearly saying that the larger your inability to communicate, the more you will lose job opportunities, chances to make money, to educate yourself, not to mention it will define the type of people you will walk with.

Well, if you miss all life's opportunities to someone who communicates better, it will start causing envy, jealousy and many other bad feelings.

Join these ill feelings to your miscommunication, and quickly you will start looking for a way to stand out (for better for worse), and the only weapon you'll have is not the words, but violence.

Lack of education, schools, and family parameters is the ultimate cause of violence in any country you know.

Good Topic, BTW

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: crazyewok

I don't have the patients to explain...[/post]
Ahh you tha Doctah?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Of note- the video will not only explain my comment; it is also included for relevance and to bring said comment on topic.
youtu.be...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7

The "Axe you a question" thing drives ME nuts.

You and Robin Quivers.

She went off on some caller that spoke that way.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Im sure it doesn't help, out here in the states it is the south in general I think, everyone speaks a little different out there.

Ever been to Hawaii?

originally posted by: Annee

You and Robin Quivers.

She went off on some caller that spoke that way.

I heard that one. Too funny.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: crazyewok

Ok this is a bit more advanced than either of you can handle. I would explain further but it'd be like opening a can of worms, and quite frankly I don't have the patients to explain to you this natural phenomena that occurs timelessly and globally. I can't help you, I'm sorry.

It pretty simple.

If the black community want to wallow in this vengeance culture then fine, the UK is a free country. But if they do choose to do so then they need to accept the fact most good jobs will be closed off to them and they will likely end up trapped in poverty.

Personal responsibility is a bitch.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: crazyewok

Ok this is a bit more advanced than either of you can handle. I would explain further but it'd be like opening a can of worms, and quite frankly I don't have the patients to explain to you this natural phenomena that occurs timelessly and globally. I can't help you, I'm sorry.

Apologies, just noticed this post. Was it directed at me? Personally, I'd like you to explain further if you would even though I doubt I'd be changing my view.

Thanks.

a reply to: crazyewok

Where I am, on the North shore of the Thames Estuary, colour means nothing. The communications problem being experienced by the kids is across the board, no matter their background or heritage. Its only the rare few who respect our language and enjoy it enough to speak it correctly.

Another problem facing ghetto-speak urban youth in the US is that, nowadays anyway, if one dares to call them on their urban speak, one risks facing PC wrath. If anything, youths in the US are encouraged to speak this way now, as it is viewed as somehow being part of their "beautiful and unique culture". So it follows then that if you're getting positive reinforcement for speaking gibberish.....you're gonna speak gibberish.

How do you spell "I'm finna aks dat nigga wer he stay at?". That's how. So that's why urban speak youth don't spell correctly, because they spell how they speak, and they speak wrong, so they spell wrong.

The lack of proper communication skills is a lot more widespread than just with the black community. Its happening all over, with every race in today's society.

You can blame social texting and social networks like Facebook and Twitter for this.

Parents working two jobs barely know their children these days and technology is their main babysitter. For all of the "social media" there is a huge disconnect in how people communicate these days. It's a self serving society high on instant gratification and people are brainwashed to think material things are the only things that matter. We no longer connect on a neighborly, community or hardly even on a family level anymore.

Its just a generational sign of the times, nothing more, nothing less.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: crazyewok

Where I am, on the North shore of the Thames Estuary, colour means nothing. The communications problem being experienced by the kids is across the board, no matter their background or heritage. Its only the rare few who respect our language and enjoy it enough to speak it correctly.

It does seem to be spreading into other communitys true enough.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: crazyewok

Ok this is a bit more advanced than either of you can handle. I would explain further but it'd be like opening a can of worms, and quite frankly I don't have the patients to explain to you this natural phenomena that occurs timelessly and globally. I can't help you, I'm sorry.

It pretty simple.

If the black community want to wallow in this vengeance culture then fine, the UK is a free country. But if they do choose to do so then they need to accept the fact most good jobs will be closed off to them and they will likely end up trapped in poverty.

Personal responsibility is a bitch.

I think that this is valid to a point, but only to a point. People that choose to speak this way regardless of the context are indeed making a choice, and one that is stubborn and kind of recalcitrant. I do think that "vengeance culture" is not quite on the mark; maybe "resentment culture" at least as it pertains to the use of language, is more appropriate. I think that I see where you are coming from though.

In the U.S. black culture focused on community more than financial success for a long time, and still does to a point. That worked fine when the economy could still allow for most low education workers to make a living wage. We don't live in that world anymore. The job market is driven by careers that need an education and quality communication skills, and the low level/entry level jobs still require good communication skills to succeed (as many of these are in the service industry).

I do think that underneath all of this frustration with the manifested (and often chosen) inability with language from those that come from these minority/sub cultures is genuine fear. Those of us within the dominant culture perceive a threat, and rightly so. Language is a key factor of culture and when these encompassed cultures begin asserting that the dominant culture pushes back, because it is a threat to hegemony of our own culture. I don't think that the phenomenon of push-back itself is unwarranted or even inappropriate in this context, even though I don't necessarily agree with the myopic perspective and vitriolic language that comes off as paternalistic at best and bigoted at worst to express it.

I am wishful that we could all hold hands and respect one another (I'm sorry, the puke rainbows thing is always there for me), but it is unrealistic. Maybe when we all look the same, or (more likely) when we have solid translation software to just do it for us, then this will no longer be a way to judge individuals and entire value sets. If ever that comes to pass, I'm sure that we'll come up with something else to get highfalutin about regarding the ever-present Other though.

But, you can look at it from the other side of the fence too.

Every language has dialects. So it doesn't make sense unless they are applying for jobs far from where they live. People nearby would understand "this is how local poor people talk" and whatnot. It might sound dumb to people who don't speak it but it still follows rules. There is a difference between "he workin" and "he be workin" ... they mean two different things, and the rule is consistent.

originally posted by: crazyewok

It does seem to be spreading into other communities true enough.

Yes.

But, I've got a good bar of non-toxic soap at home.

I have often asked this question but get few sensible answers, why does it have to be "black culture"/"white culture"? Are they not all Americans/English people? Why after years of wanting equality and acceptance and integration do these people now want to alienate themselves so badly? Surely they cannot be considered Afro-American? Wayyy back maybe some descendant was from African but these people are American (or English) and except for the colour of their skin are no different to anyone else unless they make themselves so.

To be fair there a thousands of amazing black role models who have successfully made it in this so called "white culture". Blaming everything on circumstance and playing the victim card no matter what your colour is so very 20th century!

a reply to: crazyewok

Binning? Binned? and yet you accuse prospective employees of having poor communication skills!

No worries mate, i'll call a spade a spade and i'll work in weather that'll freeze the balls of a brass monkey, but mums the word and this job seems like a sticky wicket...