The Phoenix Incident Movie 2015 part spoiler?

Phoenix lights was never properly explained/debunked.
Still many questions.

originally posted by: skyblueworld
I believe eyewitness testimonies over official bunk reports, any day of the year.

Great! Then you have no problem believing the eyewitnesses who saw the "V" as separate planes. Especially the witnesses who saw the "V" through telescope and binoculars.

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
Phoenix lights was never properly explained/debunked.

Actually, it has been. Just because some people choose to ignore the evidence doesn't make it still unexplained. Or you may have some issue(s) that causes it to be unexplained, to you, but that doesn't mean it's unexplained for the rest of us.

a reply to: _BoneZ_

You are exactly what your government expects you to be, congratulations!


Haha and a moderator to boot!!

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
Phoenix lights was never properly explained/debunked.
Actually, it has been. Just because some people choose to ignore the evidence doesn't make it still unexplained. Or you may have some issue(s) that causes it to be unexplained, to you, but that doesn't mean it's unexplained for the rest of us.

I don't see it as solved.
Have you ever gone to nuforc.com and read all the reports on 3/13/97 (they start on 3/12/97)?
There may have been planes around also but a photo of the underside of an A-10 can be seen online, there are no huge lights, nothing even close to what was described.
The one person who saw planes said he also Heard them and that they were going 2-300 mph. That is nothing like many others who saw huge amber globes (not landing lights) moving around 40 mph and taking up to 15 minutes to pass by.

There are some earlier sightings in Nevada, when it was brighter out. Some people saw extreme acceleration as well.
If a low flying formation of planes flew in front of the the moon you would be able to see them as planes.
Especially considering you saw a plane passing by at the same time a bit higher up in the sky.

Summary : My wife and I witnessed a craft passing in front uf us that was close to a mile long.This boomerang/trianglar craft became "transluct" when it passed through the light of the moon.

It was 8:30 pm., mst, 3/13/97, and I wasgoing to bed. I went to close the window,when three huge, white, bright lights caughtmy eye. A plane was crashing from SkyHarbor Airport in Phoenix, the angle andspeed would not allow a plane to survive.I ran to the living room, grabbed my glasses,and told my wife of 25 years, Get outside,NOW! Never said that before, in that tone.We were standing on our porch within 8-10seconds. This craft was 3000 ft. off thesurface. at least 1 mile in length. Thereis no doubt in our minds that what we wereseeing, was one object. It appeared to betriangular or wedge shaped. Three bright whitebeams of light up front, and 4-5 solid, non-blinking red lights on east side and rear.The moon at that time was at 45 DEGREES anddirectly facing us. I told my wife, "We'llbe able to see detail as it passes in frontof us, directly in front of the moon. As thecraft passed thru the light of the moon, thecolor of the moon changed to dingy yellow,and we could see horizontal "waves" as itpassed. These waves were similar to gasolinefumes if one to take the lid off of a gas can,and look at the reflection of the fumes. Thecraft was viewed by us from a straight linenorth to south. It never moved irratically,nor did it make a sound. It was totally quiet.Our viewing sight was approximatly 2 milesfrom the craft. We witnessed a plane in landingformation pass right over the object. It neveradjusted its course. It didn't see it. I toldmy story to MUFON on 1-15-97. We were on,"Strange Universe" on 3/31/97 as witnesses tothis great event. The video on the news and tvis not what we saw at or near that same time.Our sighting was one solid object. We live inthe far eastern part of Chandler, and had anexcellent view point. This craft had no visiblemeans of propulsion and was totally quiet.Itnever changed course and went straight southtowards Tucson, Az. The object was dark andwas not big in height, but beyond huge inlength. We were back inside by 8:45 in totaldisbelief of what we had seen. It wasn't untilwe saw the news the next day, did we realizethat others had seen massive sightings. I am44 years old, married for 25 years, threegrown boys, and twin granddaughters, I am aUS Navy veteran, with 14 years education.

originally posted by: bud316
I seen this new movie. Since I have been a fan of ATS, i have read every thread about this incident. This movie goes into a different ...
My question is, and excuse me for pulling this like a solid tooth, but what is it, why is no one mentions the FIRST incident. This is the incident that was the craziest where i could have sworn i read that 100s of people had seen a ship a mile wide! People reported seeing the ship itself, not just the lights like in the 2nd incident. I remember people describing seeing windows and lights everywhere and some even said seeing outlines of beings in some of the windows. Why, after 18 years they will not talk about this first incident? Was it found that 100's of people where lying?....

As under discussion elesewhere, people have been reporting exactly that kind of sighting for decades, in at least SOME cases when actually watching a night flyover of a fireball swarm from a satellite entry and disintegration. It's hard to believe independent witnesses could come up with similar descriptions based on the same prosaic [but once in a lifetime observation] event, but this report shows that it has happened again and again and again when the satellite reentry was shown to have been occurring.

www.jamesoberg.com...

The wider implications are that any 'formation' of independent bright lights moving together across a dark sky can be similarly misinterpreted by many, many witnesses, in the same manner.

a reply to: joelr

Here's what one witness reported seeing when he was looking at a fireball swarm of space debris burning up:

A few years ago American and Australian forces had a exercise in the northern territory
That spooked a few aboriginese over a few nights
The yanks were flying their new toys they keep at pinegap
They moved them there from area 51
Lol good luck going out there with an deckchair
You'll be dead in a few days.
Have seen them myself
Approximately 60 to 80 meters across
Triangular in shape darker then the night sky
And made no sound
I tell you no lie
It few right over the top of me
About 50m above my head
11 pm time
It traveled so slow that if it was an airplane it would have fallen from the sky

originally posted by: piney...
It few right over the top of me
About 50m above my head
11 pm time
It traveled so slow that if it was an airplane it would have fallen from the sky

Thanks for sharing. To be useful for verification, an exact date and location is necessary.

Also, did anyone else report seeing what you describe as a common occurrence?

originally posted by: JimOberg
a reply to: joelr

Here's what one witness reported seeing when he was looking at a fireball swarm of space debris burning up:

Well scientifically you are off to a bad start, or a bias start. I'm going to assume your agenda is to debunk rather than solve this case? If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Next is the obvious, the report on meteor mis-identifications states about 1/2 of sightings were accurate. The other half were reports of craft-like objects.
The phoenix case has over 99% reporting a large triangle craft OR large amber lights. So the stats from the meteor case suggest that the Phoenix case was likely something odd.

It's at least narrowed to airplanes in formation vs unknown craft/lights. If one approaches this case from a non-bias point of view then you would at least look at the underside of an A-10 and see there are no lights and also read the reports from 3/12/97 to 3/13/97 on NUFORC. The remaining reports were to the council woman's and mayors office which numbered over 1000 and only 1 claimed to see planes. If the flares WERE dropped as a distraction then that 1 call and 1 report to NUFORC claiming planes were probably works also.


I'm not saying the case is solved, I just don't see it as debunked.
Keep in mind, at some point seeing a triangle object IS representative of seeing a triangle object.
If there were only 1 or 2 sketchy reports of the Illinois triangle in 2000 or whenever that was you would be saying the same thing - misidentification - but that actually was a triangle.

Again there are earlier reports of a triangle headed towards Phoenix but still in Nevada when it was brighter outside.
There are some holes as well, it's not an easy case to figure out.


There is also an interview of Peter Davenport and 2 sets of witnesses he picked out on Art Bell. That is a pretty spectacular description but I'm weighing that with all the evidence. If you are ignoring things like that you are missing some potential insights. Or mis-leading insights, yes, but you have to take it in either way to make a decision.

I'm not a total ufo believer at all. I debunked Roswell to my satisfaction just by reading the available facts.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: JimOberg

a reply to: joelr



Here's what one witness reported seeing when he was looking at a fireball swarm of space debris burning up:

Well scientifically you are off to a bad start, or a bias start. I'm going to assume your agenda is to debunk rather than solve this case? If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.



Next is the obvious, the report on meteor mis-identifications states about 1/2 of sightings were accurate. The other half were reports of craft-like objects.

The phoenix case has over 99% reporting a large triangle craft OR large amber lights. So the stats from the meteor case suggest that the Phoenix case was likely something odd.

You're off to a bad start. How do you know the distribution of perceptions? All we know is the distribution of reports.

Bonez, that stuff you posted years ago is what i was talking about what info i knew in a sense. I just dont know about planes in v formation thing.. where these planes able to go as slow as this ship was going? I figured a plane had to at least go 300mph plus.. What i remember reading was that this mile long ship went right over, figures being seen, are you saying the figures being seen were American pilots?

Thanks for keeping this going, This info is great 20 years later almost..

Bud

originally posted by: JimOberg

You're off to a bad start. How do you know the distribution of perceptions? All we know is the distribution of reports.

I'm not sure what you mean by "distribution of perceptions"?

The Phoenix council woman stated that initially she had 700 calls and all except 1 said basically the same thing.
Eventually, during the following weeks it became a big story and the media announced they were looking for information and they ended up with way over 1000 calls.
Plus the reports on NUFORC anyone can read. The reports are the same with the one difference where some people could only see lights.

The video posted on the recent thread that shows lights in a V shape with one light clearly off of the "V" actually fits some of the descriptions. Some of the people who saw a triangle ship also saw a small white light tailing behind.

Again, that meteor case has HALF of the viewers seeing what was actually there. The remaining half saw rather varied things. The Phoenix case has 99.9% seeing something very similar.
So going by the reports statistical findings, the PH case would actually be proven to be some type of large yet-unknown aircraft/ship.
I don't see the case as solved however.

But some details are hard to account for with the airplane theory. Besides the obvious problem of no large lights on an A-10 underside, way too many people gave very long time-spans for this object to pass over. Almost everyone who wasn't hampered by driving an automobile during their sighting noticed it was moving very very slow. There is no 50% split like with the meteor. You could make an estimate with trigonometry but it seems like 40mph is pretty unanimous.



There is also a report from a military man who was on a nearby base who after seeing the flares dropped said he thought it was a strange place to drop flares because it was going to cause a lot of ufo reports, being so close to the city.
Also he expressed bafflement as to why they would drop flares so far away from the training grounds in the first place. He pointed out there are 1 or 2 mountain peaks between the flare drop and the area where soldiers train.

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
Phoenix lights was never properly explained/debunked.
Still many questions.

in a nutshell

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: bud316

In the movie they ADMIT it was flares, but it was for a diversion.

They're partly right , it was flares but not for diversion but training , the first incident were terrestrial planes.

So you believe that fiction?

There are military formations of planes on a daily basis. But supposedly, on this particular day, they fooled hundreds of witnesses. They also flew apparently, from Nevada, into Arizona, and even past Phoenix later in the night. And those seeing it were fooled into thinking it was a giant triangular craft.

And on the same night, for the first and LAST time.. ever.. a "drill" was held in plain sight of Phoenix, where flares were dropped in a triangular pattern. No chance there.. it was dropped in that shape on purpose. But you feel it's just coincidental. That a typical flight of planes were mistaken by scores of witnesses for being something they were not, and that hours after sightings were being called in, a triangular drop of flares near the city of Phoenix was a typical, planned drill.

Brilliant.. they certainly did their job well.

a reply to: fleabit

Do you believe a giant mothership UFO flew over Kiev in 1963, as described in the original Russian report I quoted in my report? Or were all those witnesses who described it in detail liars? Or -- what?

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: JimOberg

You're off to a bad start. How do you know the distribution of perceptions? All we know is the distribution of reports.

I'm not sure what you mean by "distribution of perceptions"?

The Phoenix council woman stated that initially she had 700 calls and all except 1 said basically the same thing.
Eventually, during the following weeks it became a big story and the media announced they were looking for information and they ended up with way over 1000 calls.
Plus the reports on NUFORC anyone can read. The reports are the same with the one difference where some people could only see lights.

The video posted on the recent thread that shows lights in a V shape with one light clearly off of the "V" actually fits some of the descriptions. Some of the people who saw a triangle ship also saw a small white light tailing behind.

Again, that meteor case has HALF of the viewers seeing what was actually there. The remaining half saw rather varied things. The Phoenix case has 99.9% seeing something very similar.
So going by the reports statistical findings, the PH case would actually be proven to be some type of large yet-unknown aircraft/ship.
I don't see the case as solved however.

But some details are hard to account for with the airplane theory. Besides the obvious problem of no large lights on an A-10 underside, way too many people gave very long time-spans for this object to pass over. Almost everyone who wasn't hampered by driving an automobile during their sighting noticed it was moving very very slow. There is no 50% split like with the meteor. You could make an estimate with trigonometry but it seems like 40mph is pretty unanimous.



There is also a report from a military man who was on a nearby base who after seeing the flares dropped said he thought it was a strange place to drop flares because it was going to cause a lot of ufo reports, being so close to the city.
Also he expressed bafflement as to why they would drop flares so far away from the training grounds in the first place. He pointed out there are 1 or 2 mountain peaks between the flare drop and the area where soldiers train.

Joel.. Good info...So.... Was there a ship seen earlier in the day? If there was, then the rest doesn't matter... We already know they tried to diverge the situation, but i read it was too late, there is even one story that this thing came close to 4 people in Phoenix.. I wish we knew the truth.. cause this is probably the best case of UFOs i have heard of..
Bud316

thank you guys for participating.. all info in good info..

originally posted by: Poppcocked
a reply to: gortex

You believe everything you read and are told, I truly feel sorry for you.

Im not kidding


I really, really do

Dude, dont post mindless posts in this discussion, please.. State your issues. Tell us why you dispute some of the things you have read... I mean obviously you know something we do not so help us out.. I do suggest you read Bonez old threads, you will really learn 33% more then what you really know, the threads are good an unbiased.

Thank ya'll
Bud316

a reply to: fleabit

So you believe that fiction?

I believe the version that is supported by evidence you obviously believe the other fiction.

But supposedly, on this particular day, they fooled hundreds of witnesses

They fooled some but not all , some people heard and saw planes , not really surprising as the Barry Goldwater Test Range is near by and A-10's do train there.

And on the same night, for the first and LAST time.. ever.. a "drill" was held in plain sight of Phoenix, where flares were dropped in a triangular pattern

First and last time ever ? , hardly.

Planes.


Phoenix 97


Flares from 2/3/2015 @1.24 on video.

Brilliant.. they certainly did their job well.

If by that you mean the propagators of the myth then yeah I'd have to agree.

a reply to: joelr

I'm not sure what you mean by "distribution of perceptions"?

The Phoenix council woman stated that initially she had 700 calls and all except 1 said basically the same thing.
Eventually, during the following weeks it became a big story and the media announced they were looking for information and they ended up with way over 1000 calls.
Plus the reports on NUFORC anyone can read. The reports are the same with the one difference where some people could only see lights.

If you go by reports of unidentified lights only, then THAT would be the biased sampling. Most likely if someone saw these lights and identified them as planes, that wouldn't get reported. The most unbiased sampling would have to be random interviews of the general population soon after the event.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: joelr

If you go by reports of unidentified lights only, then THAT would be the biased sampling. Most likely if someone saw these lights and identified them as planes, that wouldn't get reported. The most unbiased sampling would have to be random interviews of the general population soon after the event.

Precisely. How many people would you expect to call the police excitedly to report seeing a squadron of planes fly over their home?