terrerforming mars

just wondering how would we terrerfrom mars?

with overpoplution a issue in the future will we move to mars?

i know that it would start with a good supply of water then growing algae but then what?

[edit on 2-1-2005 by klain]

getting a stable atomsphere is intergral to any long term system. im no expert by any means, but my experience as a geographer would first tell me you need a medium to workwith.

so with an atmosphere we can begin to cycle chemical constituents effectively, and begin the transfer mechanisms which define biosphere.

edit:

very interesting thread!

there may be a few different starting points before terraforming sustains our life, perhaps they would all complement one another untill they "met in the middle?"

i think we need to understand latent energy transfers, and energy cascades really well before we succeed with mars.... these are what drive our climate systems here [still a large mystery]...

[edit on 1/2/2005 by baaronhaile]

I believe man will eventually go to mars and even colonise it. Our technology is expanding exponentially and we will have the ability sooner, rather than later, to achieve just that.

Terra forming is a whole differant matter, especially if we find life there. If we change the ecosystem than we threaten that life. Even if its algea there will still be major debates and lots of hollering on the subject.

Besides, whats the point in terra forming that planet if we don't even have the ability or common sense to fix this one first?

Love and light to each of you,

Wupy

The system you would use to get a stable atmosphere on Mars will need to be constantly replenishing the air. Mars no longer has a magnetic field strong enough to hold an atmosphere. You end up with atmosphere constantly erroded by the stellar wind.

If not for the Water shortage, High Winds, and Ridiculous temperatures, terraforming Mars would be fairly simple, though it would take an extremely long time. Because of the amounts of CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, Plants would thrive there and begin producing Oxygen. Over thousands of years, the atmosphere may have enough Oxygen in it to allow us to walk freely on the planet without suits. As I said, without water, the plants would not live. The hand winds and sand storms would kill off the plants, and the frigid temperatures would freeze the plants, so we are a long way from ever living freely on Mars. In closed off bases, maybe, not not open houses and such.

We'd need a lot of things to terraform Mars.

An atmosphere similar to Earth's own: This might be furnished by automated chemical plants on Mars' surface designed to synthesize Earth-like atmospheric gases and pump them into Mars's atmosphere. We may be able to use an altered (or even improved) concoction of gases in lieu of Earth's (roughly) standard proportions of 77% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, and 3% water and trace gases.
A more Earth-like atmosphere might serve somewhat to alleviate the problem of Mars' high temperature, but the issue would not be entirely resolved.

An ozone layer: Given Mars' distance from the sun, which is a few million miles more than Earth's, an ozone layer around Mars might not have to be as potent as our own. I am uncertain, however, whether distance alleviates some of the ultraviolet radiation that the ozone layer protects us against. As for a way to produce this ozone, your guess is as good as mine.

Survivable temperatures: Damned if I know how to figure that one out.

A source of water: With sufficient effort, we could probably 'mine' water from Mars' polar ice caps... they should be large enough to provide for agricultural, sanitary, and drinking purposes for the forseeable future, or at least until we could manage to create oceans, and, with them, a complete cycle of precipitation.

Global growing environments for Terrestrial plant life: without good soil or massive hydroponic farms, we'll have a hell of a time providing sustainable food to the populace. We'd also need a lot of oxygen-producing trees to sustain the atmosphere without using up precious resources.

We'd face other problems as well, including a somewhat lower level of gravity and, of course, the fact that we can't very well cover the entire planet's surface in what we call soil. But, given sufficient time and resources and a few (entirely possible) advancements in technology, the Red Planet could probably

if we had a way to put up the ozone layer the algae takes in co2 and its waste product is air so all we need is loads of water after that then the rest of mars would be green pretty fast eh?

Originally posted by mrwupy
Besides, whats the point in terra forming that planet if we don't even have the ability or common sense to fix this one first?

These are my same thoughts. Terraforming seems more like a fantasy than real science. The reason I say this is because if it were possible wouldn't we be doing weather mods on earth on a large scale? Granted, tests and studies have been done, but why haven't we figured out how to seed hurricanes or severe weather storms to change potential weather threats as of yet? Maybe, we have, but why aren't these things being done, which is a lot cheaper than creating an entire eco-system on an otherwise barren planet. How much money was spent creating that silly earth dome out in the dessert, which was just a fraction of a fraction of what would have to be done to cover the surface of an entire planet. How long would it take to jump start living organisms on an entire planet?

I think the best that will come out of this is that NASA will raise enough support to justify more spending on space exploration, which isn't a bad thing, but it could be used more effectively on other projects.

gotta wonder, maybe the most suitable and easiest planet to terraform is the one we are most familar with.

the logistics of the problem are not only the recipes but the ingredients.

no need to re-invent the wheel, but an upgrade to 4x4 may prove usefull in the future explorations of space.

I�m certainly no expert on the subject of terraforming Mars, and I have mixed emotions about it.

On the one hand, I have to wonder about the ramifications, in the overall scheme of things, of disturbing the natural environment of one of the planets. I hope all the I�s are dotted and T�s crossed before we embark on such a venture. It�s the unknowns that concern me.

On the other hand, terraforming Mars makes sense to me because so much can go wrong here on Earth. We need a way out in the event of overpopulation, unavoidable cosmic events like an astroid strike, chained natural events causing upheaval like super volcanoes combined with monster quakes and tsunamis, runaway greenhouse, etc. As far as killing any existing microbial life on Mars, should it be there, if it�s a matter of survival of the Human species, then so be it. Survival of the fittest, and all that � I have a feeling the day will come when we need to have a place to go in order to avoid extinction.

So, as far as my mixed emotions go, I tend to go with the latter of the 2 mentioned above. I believe the time has come for us to spread our wings and fly.

Note: the term is �terraforming�, not �terrerforming�. It�s funny how terrorist activity has invaded our psyche so completely.

Note II: Just kidding �

Before we even talk about terraforming Mars we need to sort out which clan gets 100% rights to the whole planet.

An international team would fail. There would be competition all over again. Its either one clan or none on mars for the terraforming to begin.

yeh to the second from above im not a great typist

and to the last one by RedPhoenixDelta there is a law that no government can own a heavenly body thats why people can buy parts of the moon so i would imagine that it would be a few rich billionaire first moving there then like someone said if earth got more dangerous to live then laws would probably be out the window.

did you just watch NGC?

they had a whole story about it, but they did not explain how it would happen: they sad from this point it would take the sun 5mil year, but science sad that it could be done in 3-500 years

are you talking about the life of our sun and it burning up because it will run out of fuel in 5 billions years then yes we cant live on mars for too long we will eventually have to leave this solarsystem and find another planet
cosmic refugees

there is a law

That I do not acknowledge. Calling shotgun doesn't work like that. First come, first serve.

thats why people can buy parts of the moon

Who are they buying it from?

[edit on 3-1-2005 by RedPhoenixDelta]

Terraforming mars was an intruiging idea for me too, but you've unfortunately not covered one aspect, Mars does NOT have a magnetic field.

Some theories project that mars at one time had an atmosphere similar to early earth, but because mars either never had a magnetic field or as mars cooled it went away, the solar wind blew the atmosphere away.

It is known that the Magentic field of Earth is one of the Key elements to maintaining its atmosphere.

Also providing some critical radiation protection. One of the key issues in sending people to mars.

Originally posted by AnnoDomini2
Terraforming mars was an intruiging idea for me too, but you've unfortunately not covered one aspect, Mars does NOT have a magnetic field.

Some theories project that mars at one time had an atmosphere similar to early earth, but because mars either never had a magnetic field or as mars cooled it went away, the solar wind blew the atmosphere away.

It is known that the Magentic field of Earth is one of the Key elements to maintaining its atmosphere.

Also providing some critical radiation protection. One of the key issues in sending people to mars.

Have that one solved right here

my mars shielding moon link

[edit on 4-1-2005 by shadarlocoth]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by shadarlocoth]

Good idea!

But i can see several possible issues, one has already been mentioned in the thread, getting enough roids there to begin with.

There's also -> Could the orbits be maintained? With them being magnetic they'd pull towards each other adding more complexity to the orbital dynamics, not to mention, these aren't in the real world going to be of identical mass and fields are not going to be identical (assuming they were something like kuiper belt objects) therefore maintanence of the orbits may be required.

Also, would this disrupt radio and possibly laser communications due to the strong localised fields?

How about large fission/fusion reactors in orbit producing the fields, although requiring the same regular maintenance (more due to fuel) you've got the benefit of being able to regulate the field strength and theoretically would be easier to construct in orbit.

If the reactors were fusion, fuel could theorectically be captured from the sun, as helium-3 and hydrogen are blasted out in the solar wind, which apparently (I'm not familiar with the specifics) can be easily converted into deuterium for a fusion reactor. Therefore supplying the fuel required to maintain the fields.

Also extra energy generated could be relayed to mars to provide power for inhabitants on the surface.

I already discusted how to get the rocks there in the other thread.

Originally posted by shadarlocoth
Well If we can hook drive units to big floating Iron rocks, then I think we can with our current level of tech, Unless the rock is spinning oddly. Would Need targets with slow or no spin on them for easy docking. Next for a way to move them. I would have to say Super sized version of a Ion drive. Have a nuke reactor As the power supply the reactor later could be used to power the electro mag's once its in orbit.

The unit would be made of 3 sections. First would be the landing legs that mount to the Target similar to the moon Landers but have large screws on each pad to tap into the rock also as it closed on target it would launch 6 harpoons to the target to help hold it in place and to help with landing. after the feet are secure then a High power co2 laser mounted on the on center of the bottom of the craft with a refracting arm that can spin on the bottom of the craft so that it can project laser light to any point under the craft. then it burns 6 holes as deep as the main stage is tall then. something looking similar to drywall screws are lowered into the holes the laser made. Then they are expanded to give a rock hard grip to the Target.

The next part is the main body that holds the nuke/fusion reactor + guidance and radar all the tech stuff that keeps the unit on track. Then there is a is a seal that works like Tank turrent. attacked to the top is a fuel storage or radar/ imaging equipment. Then attacked to sides are the main ion drives. This would let the drives face any direction. This also lets the unit slow down any rotating speed the target might have after attaching.

similar to the turrent here to give you a idea on how it would work.


The units would not be small at all we are talking about the size of a Saturn 5 first stage booster at a minimum would odds are take 3 to 5 of these per Target to get them moving.

[edit on 20-12-2004 by shadarlocoth]

as for them attacting to each other just line them up positive to positive neg to neg pole so the repell each other if the get to close these sheilds will be at defenert orbits and always atleast 1000 miles away from each other... The best solid state mags on earth give off about 12 times there area in attactibel magnetic feilds so 50X12= 600 miles of very good coverage and odds are 1000-5000 miles of so so coverage. Of corse electro mag are much better then solid state.

As for them effecting comunitcations thats posible.... might have to have some uplink stats above the sheilds retransmiting on a confined beam down to mars...

A lot depends on what you mean by Terra forming.

If you mean where humans can walk naked and without the help of breathers it would take a long time if ever.

If you mean a place with Earth-like life that can support humans its a different story. I have watched several programs and read several books on the subject and although most agree some forms of Earth life MIGHT be able to survive Mars now it would take forever to go at it like that.

What is needed is to slam a few water and CO2 rich comets into the surface thickening the Atmosphere and raising CO2 levels. This will raise the Temperature enough to melt the caps, which are mostly CO2, which will thicken the atmosphere even more, which will raise the temp which will will free the water locked in the Ice (along with the water from the comets)

This should bring it (the CO2) up enough for plants to thrive which will start the process of making Oxygen. Though it is doubtful there will ever be enough for people gene spliced animals are another matter.

It would be fairly easy to create a planet that can support advanced life and could be farmed to support humans. We would have to wear breathers and stay indoors most of the time but would not need bulky space suits and it could be adapted to quite easily